Introducing The Winter Expansion - EVE Online: Lifeblood

(Black Pedro) #284

Do they? Because I have heard all sorts of claims of what “highseccers want”. I am not sure there is any consensus that “they” only want new level 4 missions in the same vein as the Damsel.

Ask yourself, are you upset with the new content you don’t have the details of, or are you really just angry over the last few years of highsec neglect on the part of CCP? If it is the latter, I suggest you just hold back a bit until the reveal before you unload both barrels on CCP. It isn’t very becoming to throw a tantrum on the cusp of CCP trying to make amends. At least open the box of chocolates and look inside before you decide to throw it back in their face.

(Yiole Gionglao) #285

Yeah, why bother finding your next awoxer/ganker/leeroyjenkins/et cetera? Group content just caters to existing groups. And the msot notoriosu highsec groups are nullsec alts… not necessarily a bad thing, I mean, my first true mentor in game was a nullsec FC who used his HS alt to relax and take some green mission runners under his wing, pew-pewing frigates away from his BS, which back then was as a OMGawesome Golem.

But seriously, grouping in highsec is a liability more than an advantage. Unless you already are in a goup.

(Jin'taan) #286


I’m pretty sure if they want to make the most money - which going through the effort of anchoring and launching a citadel and then fitting it with the requisite rigs implies that they do - they’ll swap the rigs over to a refinery and sell the Astra. But, hey, maybe some players are so casual they won’t do that.

Actually I’m more of a mid-large scale FC primarily, but I take pride in finding out as many aspects of the game as possible. I’ve advocated for everything from making the starting overview/tutorial not bad (going through the effort of making my 16 y/o brother and 70+ y/o grandmother play the tutorial to find the flaws), to getting repairs added to the combat log so people can see how effective they’re being when they play the logistics role.

I’m not getting why group PvE is something that can’t work on a casual basis when it does in other areas of the game. At the current time, it’s got a high barrier of entry as the only real, scalable option is incursions, and these either have high requirements to get in as they’re contested (VG/HQ), or are incredibly difficult when compared to rewards given (Scout/Assault). Lowering the barrier of entry and getting more people involved in group activities has worked to promote the social gameplay that is the lifeblood of any MMO, not just EVE.

Solo PvE is fine and all, but I’m of the opinion that it should be strictly inferior in the long run to social/group PvE, as that’s how you get people to interact with one another and generate the kind of stickiness that keeps people involved with EVE for years upon years. If I was still mission running in my Maelstrom, I guarantee I wouldn’t be here today, after 9 years.

And, why can’t Resource Wars or FoB’s be this? Why can’t a small corp run a FoB wherever they live, giving them a reason to be close together and work on a project? Why can’t a solo player do some Resource Wars and find a corp through that? Perhaps I’ve lost touch with the casual playerbase, but the amount of pessimism here is something I’d expect from the nullsec/lowsec vets who’ve found out that the problems they’re facing aren’t going to be touched in the next 6 months - not the people who CCP are actually trying to help keep involved in the game.

(Yiole Gionglao) #287

Didn’t say it’s the only thing, but seriously, it’s something everybody agrees that would do no harm, would increase the longevity of the mission running career and roughly 70% of people who answered Sugar Kyle’s blog asked for it.

And guess what… CCP developed mission building tools so thay hadn’t to be literally handwritten. Those tools haven’t been used since Burner missions were added, and they were also a failure… unless the plan was that agents would offer 4, 5 or even 6 Burner missions in a row as they were being added to the roll way, way, WAY faster than they were being removed by dudes actually bothering to run them.

(DeMichael Crimson) #288

I’ve been a PvE player mainly in high sec for over 9 years. I’ve also been an active member of these forums for almost as long. I don’t know why some players keep saying most high sec PvE players want new group oriented PvE content added to the game. I haven’t seen a lot of requests for that and as a solo player, that’s something I don’t particularly want. More importantly, there’s already plenty of options available in game to make that happen.

New missions? Sure, but I’d like to see those come from new agents based on exploration. And I’m not talking about killing Drifters or doing Burner type missions. I’m talking about having ‘Search & Rescue’ and ‘Retrieval’ type missions that involve scanning down mission specific sites in known space as well as scanning and entering mission specific w-holes, then scan down the mission site, complete the objective and report back to agent.

Some missions could incorporate Logistics game play, such as provide remote repair on a station or find and repair a stranded ship. There could even be multi-part mission’s that incorporate Industry game play, such as retrieve a few specific items which have to be assembled with some minerals to create an item which is used to complete the final mission. Since it’s an exploration agent, all missions would involve probe scanning mission specific sites in both known space and w-hole space.

That’s the type of new PvE content I’d like to see added to the game. Content that will utilize all of my skills, content that I can complete solo without having to rely on other players who may or may not show up.

(Buoytender Bob) #289

Exactly! We’really not asking for a change in game mechanics,just a change in how HS PvE is generated.

(Arrendis) #290

Oh, that’s easy, Jin’taan: because ‘in other areas of the game’, we’re already organized and have a number of social connections. FW has the militias. Lowsec has the corps and alliances. NS has groups like Provi, Horde, Goons… we have an easy time organizing group PvE because we’re already attracting the people who want to do things with other people.

The folks in HS who’d most need a ‘group finder’ need one because they don’t want to play in groups. Plenty of people in HS do want to. And they already do. They’d also the HS players most likely to migrate the J-space, or to low-sec, run mining fleets, etc etc. They’re already hooked into the meta of ‘most of the content in the game is stuff you do while chilling with friends’. It’s the other HS players who need more content.

(Buoytender Bob) #291

Well stated!

(DeMichael Crimson) #292

Gotta say I’m really sick and tired of seeing Low sec, Null sec and W-hole players constantly inferring they know what High sec players want.

How about staying in your own backyard and stop trying to change our backyard into a duplicate of your own.

(Jin'taan) #293

I’m not opposed to the idea of giving more mission content to solo players, but it becomes a question of priority. Is dev time better spent making a mission for hisec players who’s average time spent in the game is minimal (1~ y on average) or on the people who stay here and build the communities that last a decade? If it is, how much content needs to be added? How successful has previous solo content (like burners) been on increasing people’s engagement with PvE? How much does giving players a prince to save as well as a princess really change the games fundamental PvE problems of being about 10 years out of date and not really having the option to change without modifying the core systems of the game? These are the deeper questions that I don’t see people asking when it comes to the “New Solo Content” that people perceive a need for.

That said, the points you made on needing a group finder are 100% valid, and sidles up right along with the need for “Social Groups” in EVE, to allow people to interact with each other and share channels and feel like a group without the need for the risks or benefits that corporations provide. But that’s a long term “roadmap” style vision for me.

(Yiole Gionglao) #294

Yeah, the ‘other’ ‘80% of highsec, 67% of the game, 95% of new players’ HS players. A completely neglectable tiny bunch, you see.

(Buoytender Bob) #295

I’m saddened that a CSM member thinks CCP development are unable to put in place a random mission generator, a technology
/programming that has been used in MMOS for over a decade. That doesn’the change the core of EVE, nor force anyone to play in that style. My solo play is full of group activities outside of missions, but CCP’ shouldn’t spend their small development resources duplicating an already existing mechanic/gameplay at the cost of introducing new content in a field left generally alone for over a decade.

(Querns) #296

These are interesting numbers. Got a source for them?

(Arrendis) #297

Well, again, most of us do things in a variety of areas of the game, and don’t want them homogenized.

(Jin'taan) #298

That 67% is oft-repeated but ill founded. It was 67% of characters, not players. I suspect a percentage of that is almost assuredly alts, but yes, the majority of overall players (or close to it) do reside in Hisec.

(Yiole Gionglao) #299

You know, there is nothing wrong with missions. Only that it’s been the same missions for 13 years and none new has been added since 2010.

Missions are a perfectly fine content, they’re just too few and haven’t been expanded for too long. If that was ever adressed (maybe as DMC asks, building mission chains which could be completed one step at a time), more discussion could happen.

You know, there was one thing that I enjoyed while it lasted… entosing abandoned Jove observatories. I lost a lot more money (and ships) to the Drifters than what the Antykitheras were worth, but I did just for FUN. That kept me subscribed until CCP trainwrecked the Drifter arch with group content outside of highsec, and topped with a broken Incursion AI that forced the eventual removal of the Incursions.

(Yiole Gionglao) #300

It was 25% of “traditionals”, 30% of "professionals"and 12% of “socials” who never, if ever, engage in PvP and never, if ever, leave HS.

(Jin'taan) #301

Social PvE =/= Leaving Hisec or PvP

(Arrendis) #302

Right, I get that… but that’s where it’s been. Ship rebalances tend to happen around ‘how is this ship being used in the meta?’ Cloaking changes sure weren’t about solo play. Jump fatigue? Phasing out POSes? Absolutely all of the new structure work that’s come with that? Siphons? Even burner missions are things that primarily happen in LS/NS.

So… what exactly was the last new content HS—especially solo HS—really got?

Right, sure, there’s a need for that…

… but not everyone wants that. There’s a lot of people who don’t login to interact with other people. I’m not going to claim ‘I know this is typical for EVE players’, but reading the people on this thread who are saying ‘I want solo stuff’… I can’t help but think about the fact that when I do PvE… if it’s in EVE, I’m ratting, solo. I’m not in comms. I’m not talking to people. I have to put up with fleet comms, I don’t want to deal with the idiots when I don’t have to. If it’s in other MMOs… it’s always been solo. At most, I’ll duo with people on the epic storyline in LotRO, or maybe do an instance in WoW, but those times are rare.

There’s no way, especially looking at the feedback real players are giving right here, that there isn’t a sizeable amount of that in EVE’s highsec playerbase. And right now, they’re saying… to quote Kevin Smith from J&SBSB, “When, Lord, when? When’s it gonna be my time?”

(Yiole Gionglao) #303

Also the roughly 60-70% of “carebears” from the old CCP-created Spanish Chat channel. It was quite revealing to know how much noise made the nullsec/PvP guys (it was a lively chat after all), compared to the horde of quiet highsec guys minding our business.

Ah, excuse me: certainly players log in their alts into chat channels too, right?