Introducing The Winter Expansion - EVE Online: Lifeblood

[Buoytender_Bob]

Not a bad idea. Get your feet wet with an easier burner mission, gain experience on how to run them, and graduate to the level 4 burners.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

I like that idea, have it scaled down for all agent levels which would then make that content available to all players.

Now I already mentioned adding new Exploration agents for new PvE content. However other than the Career Agents there’s no agent missions that also incorporate Manufacturing skills. Could also add new agents that Trade / Industrial characters can engage in.

Granted it’s not specific for high sec but it’s still new PvE content that can be done solo.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

@DeMichael_Crimson

As for new solo content, I actually like the idea behind The Agency events, however I think it needs to be split up into 2 different level’s, one for Alpha Clones and one for Omega Clones. Also the rewards need to be buffed to make those events more special which would incite more player participation.

Also get rid of the task timer, just have completed tasks reset with downtime.

And as an after thought to negate ‘Cherry Picking’ of specific event tasks, each task would need to be completed at least once in order to complete the event.

[Buoytender_Bob]

What I (and according to many in HS I have talked to) want is some sort of random mission generator that offers a variety of opponents, a variety of difficulty,and a variety of objectives (including exploration,hacking,building). Throw in some sort of randomness, don’t make it always the same. Don’t allow someone to always blitz or cookie cut fit a mission ship; do this by throwing in unknown opponents, time locked mission gates, a twist of some type. Many HS soloist love to take the time to full clear a mission, explore blowing up buildings to see if something drops, see what asteroids are available in the mission,etc. Those that want to blitz or always use the same ship are those people who are trying to max out their isk/tick, usually funding their PvP in lower sec by a safer alternative method. The people I talk with are looking for more options, not necessarily more isk. Many prefer solo, but if you introduced a way to introduced cooperative play that mimics part of the dynamics of solo play (yes, it is possible), most would be willing try it out. I suggested bringing back the old data chip fragments which used to drop as way to build a gated mission site; collect all the chips (3-5) either by yourself or with others and spawn the gate available only to the chip owners. These chips could also be sold or traded.

This thread, by itself, has offered many good ideas and, more importantly, opened the communication that appeared to many to be lacking. Let’s try to keep the spirit and this thread productively going forward.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

On the topic of making things random, have all spawn triggers be random in missions and in exploration sites. Also remove ability to ‘Blitz’ exploration encounter sites by having the Faction Commander / Overseer NPC only spawn after all defending NPC’s have been destroyed. Also remove ability to ‘Cherry Pick’ Containers in Hacking sites by making Containers un-scanable. Now that would definitely make PvE content much more interesting.

[Jeremiah_Saken]

@Jin_taan

To that end, I just don’t see why group content isn’t the answer here. I literally held a PvE roundtable last year and the overwhelming majority of people there asked for more content, and specifically, scalable content that could be done socially. If solo play is such an important niche, I do have to ask why people didn’t bring this up at all, or why those players weren’t represented.

and how many of players participated in roundtable were solo hisec players? It seems like nullsec players were asking for group content and they got one. Unless there will be seats for every aspects of the game at CSM nothing will change. For now most of them are nullsec players, elected by nullsec blocs, discussing nullsec matters.
You know why players “leveling their Raven” are leaving after one year? Because content is stale. There nothing wrong with leveling Raven nor should be. It’s how it should be in sandbox, people choose how to play with their sand. Most of players don’t want to combat pvp. Assuming that 90% of EvE populace should play that way is a dead end.

Still waiting for some details CCP, Jin can’t even give them because of your bloody NDA.

[Tipa_Riot]

@Jin_taan

I’ve had many people come to me and specifically state that they feel they can’t play with their friends in the same way they can in other MMOs, and this is something I’ve forwarded to CCP.

This is true, but the reason is that EvE is a sandbox PvP game, and other games are not. You simply can’t create a corp in highsec and happily go on raids all day … because of the PvP sandbox and especially wardecs.

Why do you think Incursion corps are not a thing in highsec? In highsec forming a non-PvP oriented corp is punished by the mechanics to the point where it’s not viable, unless you keep a very low profile and use alts for everything.

You promote group PvE content, but you do not recognize that in EvE this requires a PvP-capable group … and why should such a group live in highsec? If some denies that, it’s the ask for a different EvE with highsec being a safe from PvP zone. I do not want CCP going that route.

[Arrendis]

@Jin_taan

And, I really do have to disagree with you on the topic of “No Hisec players want social content”, as I’ve had many people come to me and specifically state that they feel they can’t play with their friends in the same way they can in other MMOs, and this is something I’ve forwarded to CCP.

@Tipa_Riot

This is true, but the reason is that EvE is a sandbox PvP game, and other games are not. You simply can’t create a corp in highsec and happily go on raids all day … because of the PvP sandbox and especially wardecs.

That’s a fair cop, I think, Jin’taan. In other MMOs, you can just go to a PvE server. The fact that there’s noplace in EVE where you can escape non-consensual PvP is going to be something of a sore-point for some players. I wonder, if 1.0 security systems were strict PvE zones… how empty would the rest of High-sec be?

[Yiole_Gionglao]

On the topic of how do you know what highsec Pvers want/like:

Currently the approach is to set a stand with a large sign saying “SHY PEOPLE COME HERE” right in the middle of a Gay Pride Parade. Assuming that shy people even leave home those days, an assuming they know there will be a stand, they will be embarrassed to go to the parade, and if they go, they will not make themselves notorious by going to the stand. But oh, you will gather a lot of opinions about shy people.

What has worked for me, and probably would for CCP, is proactive engagement. Usually I would say in chat “if you need help with mining or missions just ask or convo me”. Just knowing that there was someoen who was not a nullsec PvP poking others like him about killmails, wars and the such, was enough for some people to break theirradio slilence.

What could CCP do? First, I suppose that they can tell players by their behavior -someone who only runs misisons, and never jumps to lowsec, and only activated a module on another players after being attacked, probably is a highsec PvEr. Mass mailing a poll to those accoutns could provide a framework on what do they like and why, and with that information, CCP coud venture into the more risky waters of asking what would they like to see. Another thing would be to set up simple prototypes with common MMO mechanics and just see which ones players use and repeat, and figure what does that mean. Another thing would be to make a open poll, but that would get a lot of noise from non-target players, that is what non-PvE players think about PvE -which would be just one step ahead of the current flawed system.

Another possibility would be to make personal interviews with selected targets (probably with a tangible reward for their time) in order to let the horse speak from its own mouth.

Or maybe, you know, CCP could just ask the noisemakers like me to get a fast and cheap input on why they’re flogged whenever they try to do anything for highsec.

“Why you beat me?” works wonders when people are legitimely angry and not just are saddistic mofos who enjoy abusing CCP.

All in all, the thing that really upsets me is not that CCP never gets highsec right, but that they never have asked directions no matter how lost and clueless they are. In a way I’ve been waiting for a massive poll about highsec and PvE like the ones they did for structures. Or just something else than “oh, fly a few thousand kilometers and have a coffee with your favourite dev if he even bothers to attend -or you know who you should talk to”.

[Tipa_Riot]

I think I can compress the root cause like that … socializing in corps requires PvP-capabilities, but PvP in highsec is crippled to mostly no-fun for defenders, so there is no reason to not move to low/null/WH with always better rewards for those groups.

Everybody who wants to group for PvE and live in highsec, do want that in safety…

[Arrendis]

Or they’re gankers, or mercenaries, or wardec griefers, or just people who haven’t really figured out what they want from the game—and in some cases, haven’t figured out what options there are.

I started EVE three times before finally sticking around. It was more than two years from when I started this ‘successful’ go-round that I found the thing I really, really love doing in this game: flying and leading the logistics in large-scale combat. Before I went out to null, I did time in highsec. I did time in w-space. I did missions, I did mining, I did ratting. (Still do 'em all on alts, too.) It was fun, but it wasn’t anything special.

My point is that it’s not just the people who just want PvE… it’s also the people who don’t know what they want yet. And if what they’re offered out of the gate isn’t engaging enough to keep them… they’ll never find that niche they really love.

[Mina_Sebiestar]

Catering to specific group of eve users won’t yield best results.

Eve missions in current form belong to recycle bin end are dead end.

I would like them to be scalable to the pilot skills gear type and amount involved.

So it is pilot choice to push missions to the max or to go steady or to ramp up with more ppl on grid.That way all the questions of wanting solo friend and whatever is up to pilot to decide not for you to loose sleep about.

Missions that are not tied up with agents example from game I played in past patrol you see NPC in system they ask you to be part of patrol they choose where to go missions AI determine spawns of NPC for you to dispatch or to just be part of action.something interactive dps ship is not requirement.

ALL ded sites need to be brought to 2017 year with updated rats, stats,behavior most of them are graveyard they can be more.

Incursions stale static need I say more.

What happened with drifter Incursions seriously what happened they looked like step up from sansha but they did not work anyone like i cant find the answer?

Miner fleets are good group content without Incentive and standing loss.

Is there anything CCP is considering successful on PVE front.?

How hard is it to expect that pve that is so old and static gonna carry large portion of player base forward.

I personally prefer group gameplay over solo but having vibrant PVE is a worthy goal no matter what or what not you like.

[Tipa_Riot]

Just found this, relevant: https://tagn.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/meaningful-progression-in-new-eden-pve/

[Jin_taan]

@Jeremiah_Saken

and how many of players participated in roundtable were solo hisec players? It seems like nullsec players were asking for group content and they got one. Unless there will be seats for every aspects of the game at CSM nothing will change. For now most of them are nullsec players, elected by nullsec blocs, discussing nullsec matters.

Quite frankly if solo hisec players can’t turn up to an event dedicated to making them feel comfortable and talk about their actual area of expertise, I doubt you’re going to find any who can effectively serve on the CSM.

I’m all for trying to reach out to them, but allotting slots on the CSM for a community which is so abjectly anti-social seems a bit forced. Besides, how are you going to stop me, for example, using one of my hisec alts and running for the position?

[Erebus_TheChin_Sundance]

how about something like when you reach a standing of 10 with a agent you get offered a epic arc style series of missions from that npc corp?

how about something intermediate between lvl4’s and burners?

[Jeremiah_Saken]

@Jin_taan

I’m all for trying to reach out to them, but allotting slots on the CSM for a community which is so abjectly anti-social seems a bit forced. Besides, how are you going to stop me, for example, using one of my hisec alts and running for the position?

I won’t, but if you were elected that way you would lose credibility, something that would be hard to repair.
For first people in hisec aren’t anti-social. Game made them that way. There is no reason to have corporation in hisec because of perma warddecing mechanism. This was the main purpose I’m playing alone. If someone doesn’t want to combat pvp having corp is not worth the hassle.
Secondly if someone know how CSM works, like me, there is no reason for anyone to be elected as hisec representative. Because we don’t know what is the future developement plan and what feedback CCP will need. For the most of time they are focusing on nullsec gameplay and feedback from that area will be wanted anyway. How bad is current CSM show probing window iteration, it’s a mess, and it happenend because there are no person at CSM that is probing on daily basis. See the point here? You are the FC for nullsec fleets, what is your experience with hisec pve? What are the weak parts of it? Or strong parts? CCP made unpside down conclussion in the past. That only players that playing in group and in nullsec staying in the game.

[Drago_Shouna]

@Jin_taan

Solo PvE is fine and all, but I’m of the opinion that it should be strictly inferior in the long run to social/group PvE, as that’s how you get people to interact with one another and generate the kind of stickiness that keeps people involved with EVE for years upon years.

It’s a bit telling that you believe solo play should be inferior, maybe it’s a big pointer as well to the thinking of both CCP and the CSM as a whole.

I’m like most on here, I want any new content to be available to solo players who have absolutely no interest in grouping up with random players. This new content seems to be just another attempt to force players to form larger and larger groups even though it’s never worked in the past. Heck, maybe it’s some weird social experiment dreamed up by CCP Ghost.

@Jin_taan

And, why can’t Resource Wars or FoB’s be this? Why can’t a small corp run a FoB wherever they live, giving them a reason to be close together and work on a project? Why can’t a solo player do some Resource Wars and find a corp through that? Perhaps I’ve lost touch with the casual playerbase, but the amount of pessimism here is something I’d expect from the nullsec/lowsec vets who’ve found out that the problems they’re facing aren’t going to be touched in the next 6 months - not the people who CCP are actually trying to help keep involved in the game.

LOL, it’s not a matter of players finding a corp, it’s that a lot have NO INTEREST in joining a corp. Even if they do, they almost exclusively do everything by themselves, and that is in all regions not just HS (apart from the pvp junkies) Why do you think there are so many 1 man corps?

Those players that feel the need to constantly socialise will naturally gravitate to the larger corps and alliances, those that don’t, won’t.

As for the FoB’s, fine we don’t know exactly how they’re going to work so bear with me. Just supposing a small 5 man corp ran one of these and managed to beat it, the loot drops and another random player steals the loot and warps off. They probably know damn well what’s going to happen, and in any other area of space they could kill him before he gets a chance. In HS there’s not a thing you can do about it, so if that happens what incentive is there to keep doing them?

[Lord_Razpataz]

I personally dont think pve group activities in HS would give content to the highsec population. Atleast not as the mechanics are now.
Just look at incurions in HS, because of wars the incursion community is made up by a group of alt’s in npc corp. (Veteran players)

I don’t know how their gonna do the new FOB and resource wars (no blog yet), but if the rewards aren’t given to a corp/alliance benefiting grouping up in highsec the entry level on the new stuff will be a copy of incursions. Its possible to do it, but the groups doing it are so elitist that you have to wait for hours or know the right people.

But I’m curious to see how ccp have thought this would work out. Just have to wait for the blog I guess

[Chan_aar]

@Jin_taan

I’m not opposed to the idea of giving more mission content to solo players, but it becomes a question of priority. Is dev time better spent making a mission for hisec players who’s average time spent in the game is minimal (1~ y on average) or on the people who stay here and build the communities that last a decade?

Don’t you understand that the biggest reason the highsec / solo style players leave is BECAUSE THEY RUN OUT OF CONTENT!

[Zetakya]

Which resulted in people sitting in Newland running Clicksaver for the most rewarding and easily grindable missions. Like QL160 six slot belts in missions that aren’t brown caves.

/Trade WTS QL35 Omni Pol Armour PSTWO