Introducing The Winter Expansion - EVE Online: Lifeblood

(Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance) #364

how about something like when you reach a standing of 10 with a agent you get offered a epic arc style series of missions from that npc corp?

how about something intermediate between lvl4’s and burners?

(Jeremiah Saken) #365

I won’t, but if you were elected that way you would lose credibility, something that would be hard to repair.
For first people in hisec aren’t anti-social. Game made them that way. There is no reason to have corporation in hisec because of perma warddecing mechanism. This was the main purpose I’m playing alone. If someone doesn’t want to combat pvp having corp is not worth the hassle.
Secondly if someone know how CSM works, like me, there is no reason for anyone to be elected as hisec representative. Because we don’t know what is the future developement plan and what feedback CCP will need. For the most of time they are focusing on nullsec gameplay and feedback from that area will be wanted anyway. How bad is current CSM show probing window iteration, it’s a mess, and it happenend because there are no person at CSM that is probing on daily basis. See the point here? You are the FC for nullsec fleets, what is your experience with hisec pve? What are the weak parts of it? Or strong parts? CCP made unpside down conclussion in the past. That only players that playing in group and in nullsec staying in the game.

(Drago Shouna) #366

It’s a bit telling that you believe solo play should be inferior, maybe it’s a big pointer as well to the thinking of both CCP and the CSM as a whole.

I’m like most on here, I want any new content to be available to solo players who have absolutely no interest in grouping up with random players. This new content seems to be just another attempt to force players to form larger and larger groups even though it’s never worked in the past. Heck, maybe it’s some weird social experiment dreamed up by CCP Ghost.

LOL, it’s not a matter of players finding a corp, it’s that a lot have NO INTEREST in joining a corp. Even if they do, they almost exclusively do everything by themselves, and that is in all regions not just HS (apart from the pvp junkies) Why do you think there are so many 1 man corps?

Those players that feel the need to constantly socialise will naturally gravitate to the larger corps and alliances, those that don’t, won’t.

As for the FoB’s, fine we don’t know exactly how they’re going to work so bear with me. Just supposing a small 5 man corp ran one of these and managed to beat it, the loot drops and another random player steals the loot and warps off. They probably know damn well what’s going to happen, and in any other area of space they could kill him before he gets a chance. In HS there’s not a thing you can do about it, so if that happens what incentive is there to keep doing them?

(Lord Razpataz) #367

I personally dont think pve group activities in HS would give content to the highsec population. Atleast not as the mechanics are now.
Just look at incurions in HS, because of wars the incursion community is made up by a group of alt’s in npc corp. (Veteran players)

I don’t know how their gonna do the new FOB and resource wars (no blog yet), but if the rewards aren’t given to a corp/alliance benefiting grouping up in highsec the entry level on the new stuff will be a copy of incursions. Its possible to do it, but the groups doing it are so elitist that you have to wait for hours or know the right people.

But I’m curious to see how ccp have thought this would work out. Just have to wait for the blog I guess :stuck_out_tongue:

(Chan'aar) #368

Don’t you understand that the biggest reason the highsec / solo style players leave is BECAUSE THEY RUN OUT OF CONTENT!

(Zetakya) #369

Which resulted in people sitting in Newland running Clicksaver for the most rewarding and easily grindable missions. Like QL160 six slot belts in missions that aren’t brown caves.

/Trade WTS QL35 Omni Pol Armour PSTWO

(Jin'taan) #370

Primarily as a defence against wardecs

(Jin'taan) #371

Except that the addition of more content (Cosmos, Events, Burners, Jove Storyline) over the course of EVEs history hasn’t changed this retention rate at all.

(Zetakya) #372

Eh, if you just want immunity from WarDecs NPC corps are where it’s at. One man Corps are more about maximising the available Corp Contracts

(Jin'taan) #373

Yeah we totally don’t have A) a guy who lives in wormholes and scans literally every day and B) Multiple combat probers who have to use it regularly in high pressure situations and feedback totally wasn’t given to them in summit minutes you are well able to check but have decided you’d rather be blinded by righteous anger than read.

(Nunosh) #374


Not that I can contribute much for the topic because although my birthday traces me back to 2010 I’m kinda new here but just decided to give you my high sec solo player perspective.

I have been reading lots of null sec’ posts in different places almost advocating the end of high sec’ players and pvers, let me tell you that there are place for everyone and that EVE is not really a only-pvp-game, as a sandbox you can do whatever you want, whenever you want and with whom you want.

Back in 2010 I thought that it could be cool to do pvp and joined almost the first corp that contacted me (lol) but that is not really my core-game-mindset, so now that I return I decided to go solo. You null secs might just start to say that this not a game for me but let me remind you that any ecosystem needs symbiotic relations and I bet that all null sec players send their loots to Jita or Dodixie and eventually one of my alts already bought/sale any of it. So stating that solo players that don’t go for pvp don’t have a role on EVE is completely wrong, we all need everyone.

I remember that one of the first things that bring me to EVE was the fact that we could have a new universe that replicates most of the aspects of RL, and I assure you that war is not the only aspect of Human life, so why are we assuming that EVE universe needs to have only war aspects, especially if we can go to exploration missions, planetary interaction, trading, courier, researching, industrial… all these RPG paths – and some others – are part of EVE, and all can also direct or indirect contribute to pvp and/or to pve players life.

As for high sec resident the major issue that I encounter is the lack of possible pacific interaction with null corps, having create a corp for business purposes I don’t have direct interest on pvp but I would like to pursuit an economic path and wouldn’t mind to establish some joint ventures (just for the sake of RPG because we can do almost everything, not only with a couple of alts as me but also with hundreds of them as some players have).

Overall I agree with @Drago_Shouna, @Jeremiah_Saken @Jeremiah_Saken, @Yiole_Gionglao, @Buoytender_Bob and @DeMichael_Crimson

As for CSM, I would agree that at least one of the members should be clearly committed with high sec concerns and not for null sec corps interests - at least even for that member would be easier in order to manage personal interests and not being obliged to defend something that is not really his/her reality

(Drago Shouna) #375

Being in a one man corp isn’t a defence against a wardec.

1 man or 101 man corp you stand the same chance of getting wardecced if you stray near a hub.

Anyone wanting to avoid them has an alt in an npc corp.

(Jin'taan) #376

I have multiple alts I still play casually with in hisec, and if you’d like to look at my past I spent 3 years in hisec (dabbling in low) before branching out to nullsec. In my personal opinion, one of the major problems is A) How predicable the content is and B) How much it actively disincentivised me from working with other players - even when I wanted to. I was part of a small 4 man social corp that got wardecced every now and again, and it was kind of impossible for us to do anything in hisec together. We could run lvl 4’s, but splitting the reward made it pointless, Incursions didn’t exist yet and weren’t sized appropriately, and we didn’t have the income base to go risk stuff in lvl 5’s in Lowsec. So we just kind of chatted and eventually went to Lowsec together to do small gang PvP.

I fully recognise that solo content is a shallow pool, I’ve said so in the thread, but when asking for what drives people into enjoying that content, and what they want in it - and having tried to engage people on the past on this very topic - I’ve got nothing. The fork which gets a response is the one which is just bashing me for even daring to ask why you don’t feel like more social PvE will interest you. If you want a CSM to fight for you, you have to bloody work with me and tell me what you want on a more fundamental level or I can’t argue with CCP on it.

I think that’s what a lot of people don’t seem to get - “More missions!!!” Isn’t a boardroom argument that can get through because it’s been tried before; in COSMOS and Burners, and it hasn’t worked to drive retention of solo players. I need to be able to make the argument that something will work and explain why, and simply saying ‘there’s not enough content’ is a tautological argument, I need to point CCP at what works for a demographic that outright refuses to communicate with me on the level I need.

(Jeremiah Saken) #377

A) read somewhere that your wormhole guy doesn’t scan at (propablly isn’t true) B) then you done a really shitty job, compare old window and new, and it’s not only my opinion, “feedback” thread is full of complains C) I’m really to old to be blinded by righteous anger D) scan +100 systems in one sitting then we’ll talk about how “good” probing window iteration is. Change for the sake of change is wasted resources. So how is your hisec pve experience?

(Jin'taan) #378

As much as people might think so, we don’t hold power over CCP. We did what we could do prioritise the worst issues (mostly visibility), but we have to wait until it gets another pass by the UI team to leverage that feedback.

And, I don’t personally scan, so I didn’t pass on much hands on as we had people with vastly more experience to do so - once again this is all in the summit minutes.

(Jeremiah Saken) #379

A) that is the main reason content will become stale so fast.
B) hisec wardecc is the main reason players do not want to cooperate, second is the very heart of EvE - backstabbing. But yeah if content would be scalable, for let’s say 5 man group, it would be fun I presume. Problem is withing the definition of hisec itself. What is hisec? what rules of engagement should be in it? hisec wars? Are they entertaining enough for both sides? First CCP must came to where they want it then start coding. Why do I need group content in hisec when it can be easily hijacked by ceptors? Goons fight with it but they are alliance and CCP change it because of them.

Jin you can’t fight for things you want to change ( as you wrote in post summit rewiev) so if CCP don’t bother with their approach to PvE you’ll hit the wall that cannot be broken. Main problem is that there is no possible way to have a representative of, not even hisec, but pve oriented players. PvE in hisec =/= pve in null.

I don’t want to remove current content like anoms or missions or adding more missions, but adding more variety to pve in general. I have no idea how much coding would take to increase unpredicability in single combat site for example, to remove triggers.

(Jeremiah Saken) #380

That’s why I’m sceptical with CSM. CCP will do what they want eventually. Just to push feature anyway. It will be third iteration of probing window, now? It’s not that I do not appreciate your work as CSM, most players thinks you just digging up your noses, but with hard to take decisions CCP always wins, like with citadels spamming. From your perspective as someone who talk to the devs directly is there someone who have a wider perspective on whole game or are they just tunnel visioned on the jobs they currently doing?

(Nunosh) #381

Corps never delegate any real power on these kind of organisms.

@Jin_taan, correct me if I’m wrong but CSM is merely consultive… so how can we help CSM to become more “powerful” within CCP ?

(Drago Shouna) #382

Ok, besides more missions etc my biggest bugbear is structures…

Why can’t we have a smaller, more affordable Citadel etc that can only be deployed in HS? I don’t mean a nerfed into the ground one either. I mean one that a one or two man corp can fuel without it costing 500m a month to keep facilities online. Is it too much to ask for something you can simply online to reprocess and compress with then put offline or take it down without it costing a small fortune or taking a week?

As you know the removal of poses takes away a whole play style without a reasonable replacement, to a mission runner or small scale indy guy just about managing to plex his account with a bit spare a Citadel or EC is way out of reach. Plenty have tried it, HS alone is full of god knows how many offlined structures right now it’s stupid.

So we’ve gone from a casual style of putting a pos online once a week or two to having to have it online permanently or pay 200+? blocks to online it everytime.

Before anyone mentions using someone elses, been there done that and had all my sales cancelled when it didn’t get fueled again or it suddenly had no refining facilities, nor am I ever going to trust bpo’s in one when it can take months to increase ME by 1 lvl.

I can’t even think about how many different structures I’d need to manufacture all that I can, from small ammo to Caps, I can use npc stations, but that leaves me heavily penalised with production costs.

But these are just my issues and the reason I have mainly played skill queue online for months and months now while finishing off some bpo’s. Others will have different reasons.

(Yiole Gionglao) #383

COSMOS and Burners are NOT Missions. :no_good_woman:

CCP hasn’t tried to add new missions since they released Dread Pirate Scarlett -and it really wasn’t new, just something that had been stuck gathering dust in a drawer, to say so.

"But, but, we added spaghetti"
Spaghetti are not pizza.
"And we added lasagna too!"
Lasagna isn’t pizza.
"Adding more Italian cuisine doesn’t works!"
Just. Add. More. Pizzas. :pizza: