Is Eve Online too toxic?

Communications Center General Discussion
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How bad is it?
  • Oooof…
  • Could be worse…
  • I actually like it here!
0 voters

Let’s start thinking for a minute here.

You’re part of a community. No matter how small, you are defining this community. How you behave and what you do is, on a micro-level, setting the tone and expectations for everyone else that is participating with you.

So, let’s consider everything that is going on in Eve. If you weigh all the experiences you made and what you think a new player would make, both good and bad… do you think the people are making it way worse than it has to be?
And on a related note, what kind of expectations and vision do you yourself have for Eve Online?

Let me know!

With positive regards
-James Fuchs

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You can find toxicity if you want. But you can also find the opposite.

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IMO the in-game moderation (and the forums to a large extent) are a bit too overzealous in the name of “getting rid of toxicity”, almost to the point of being detrimental.

Several insults, to include the brittish slang for a used cigarette butt, can and have resulted in 3-day bans due to “hatespeach[sic] against LGBT”.

This is the game where you talk crap in local and then get suicide ganked in response, and the suicide ganking is normal, but the talking crap in local (mind you, not exacerbated/targeted spam of messages toward a single player, and with enough respect to quit when asked) is too much? gets kinda stupid as of late.

A community is best when everybody can be honest with each other, and open about it – or completely dishonest, and most importantly unpunished (mods/GM/etc. – not from other players) is the best part of the eve community.
The stories of somebody posting something they didn’t like on the forums, and then ganking that person in game are some of the best. The stories about the political intrigue, spys, corporate espionage, are straight up amazing.

But then you bring up new players… I don’t believe the community behavior is a factor for this. If people expect a complete echo-chamber of concurrence where all else is not allowed, the game play will be expected to follow a similar structure – it doesn’t, and any expectations that it should or the community should be quashed. If the person quit eve due to the “community being toxic”, I call good riddance, the gameplay of Eve will likely not be a good match for them anyway, and better they go be happy elsewhere than miserable here.

So, while on the topic of NPE, allow me to get on a soapbox for a bit:

Most of the challenge with new players is that Eve is not a MMO in the same way that World of Warcraft or FF14 are. Eve really is a unique and different thing, but it gets shoehorned in with all of those other games, which set up a lot of different expectations for the game.
Many will be turned away with how skill progression goes – they can’t play eve 20 hours a day for 2 weeks to get to max level, and the concept of waiting a week or two (half of a monthly subscription cycle) to get a skill to V to unlock training another set of skills is going to be incredibly offputting to them.

Also, the concept of loss. Dying in Eve is very different from dying in World of Warcraft. When your total net worth is 25 mil, and 24.3 mil is a cruiser fit with a hodgepodge of T1 and T2 modules…dying in lowsec is losing everything, and that is a rough point that many new players quit from. The on-rails NPE explains it, and it gets explained AGAIN in the combat series of beginner quests…but it won’t be until that point where Eve gets internalized where losing ships is a truth of the situation, it is going to happen, and there isn’t a way around it.

(edit: grammar)

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Sometimes my eyes bleed from the things I read in here. But I don’t think its because they’re toxic.

It’s because they’re so ■■■■■■■ stupid.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

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There’s two kinds of players that tend to show up in the community:

Those who want to engage the sandbox to the fullest, experience the excitement, the highs, the crazed adrenaline rush, the satisfaction of a plan coming together, the cheering of voices on the comms, as well as the lows, the groans, the disappointment, the dreaded pit in the stomach, the undoing of carefully laid plans going up in firey smoke, the chaos of shouting on comms, and all the glorious interactions in-between these players: the bragging, the gloating, the provocations, the insults, the threats, and such players want others to join in the sandbox and do the same. And experience the liberation and freedom of the tools in the sandbox, recognizing that – yes, it’s a game, but it’s meaningful to get invested in it despite the separation of game and reality.

Then there’s those that only look at the negative in others and want to do anything to eradicate them from the game. Whether it is because “those people” use “bad” or “evil” game mechanics, or are “actually IRL bad people”, and so on. These players do not draw a distinction between game and reality, and typically beg changes from CCP to make those players “go away” rather than do anything in the sandbox. Their powerlessness often – somehow – confers a moral superiority God complex. They typically do drive-by posts on the forums that are incredibly entitled, demanding, bragging about not playing the game (unless X changes), eager to watch the game “finally die”, make appeals “for newbies”, make appeals to “what’s popular”, basically anything to ignore the existing player base and ignoring the sandbox as it is today. The sandbox is not to be engaged with. The mere existence as it is today is wrong. The players – or at least some of them – “deserve” to be exterminated en masse from playing the game. They’re wanna-be fascists.

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If you think EvE online is toxic go play Dota 2 lads. You will get a tough skin VERY fast in that game.

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I agree. I also enjoy R-rated movies.

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Eve is a harsh mistress

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It’s a game about killing, destroying, sabotaging, spying on, subterfuge, misleading other people with whatever means necessary. Toxicity is part of this and perfectly appropriate in EVE.

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@Io_Koval stated;

Why so binary? I tend to think it is more of a scale from the Kardashians to Mr. Fred Rogers. The problem is when you exist on that scale there is always someone above you that you consider to be “toxic” and someone below you calling you toxic as well. Just as when you drive at the expected speed limit in the fast lane on freeway. Some maniac passes you on the right, he is shouting in his vehicle about how the moron who is hogging the passing lane. It is all just a matter of perception.

PvP online games will bear the bulk of toxic players. They are full of young men with blue and pink hair shouting at you for telling them, it is only a game.

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Then you actually are toxic because you actually are clogging up the FAST lane. If you only drive at the recommended speed, you are supposed and expected to drive on the right most lane (for all the normal-brained countries in the world, for the select outliers it’s the left-most). Driving at the recommended speed in the left lanes creates potential for accidents because people rightfully EXPECT faster speeds in the FAST lanes.

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Though many people think of the left lane on a multi-lane highway as the “fast lane,” it’s more accurately known as the “passing lane” for two reasons. First, speed limits apply equally in all lanes, so left-lane drivers aren’t allowed to speed just because they’re in the left lane. Second, the primary role of the left lane is to provide a space for you to pass cars traveling more slowly than you. That helps manage traffic, avoid delays, and keep everyone safer.

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I only drive in the fast lane. Sometimes they try to pass me in the slow lane, so I box them in behind a semi truck and leave them behind.

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I like it here!

My Alliance just hit 10 Years old today! :smiley:

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Overtaking on a left lane is fine, but overtaking requires you to drive actually faster than the vehicle you overtake, which means you have to go way over the speedlimit so that you can overtake the target quickly and merge back into the normal speed lane. Not doing that and instead drive with recommended speed in the fast lanes/overtake lanes/whatever semantics you want to use does not avoid delays, does not manage traffic and does not help keep everyone safe. It does the exact opposite. And therefore you are a toxic person if you do that.

(Naturally, this only applies to places and situations where the motorway/freeway/autobahn is not clogged up with traffic, in which cases all lanes are slow lanes. Ie. LA never has fast lanes. :face_with_hand_over_mouth: )

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There are far more players in Eve that would and do go miles to help others than any other game I’ve ever seen.

Eve really isn’t toxic. There are a lot of complainers in the world though.

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You can be toxic and helpful at the same time. Why would you be friendly to your enemies? Likewise, if you have a smartass or person who is utterly resistant to learning/listening/improving in your group, there’s no reason not to show them your appreciation for their efforts in a rather unsubtle manner. That doesn’t prevent you from being the most friendly, helpful person to others who actually listen, put effort into the experience and contribute. Toxicity, abrasiveness, negativity is highly situational.

There are even groups that made toxicity their group’s theme (like TISHU) and that creates content potential for other groups to counter them, engage them, fight them, drive them away.

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Toxicity is not the same as being a villain in game, or engaging in pvp, or even joining a Corp to steal all their assets.

It’s just being a ****, for the sake of it… at least that’s how i see it

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I don’t think so. The rules of the game are hard-coded and bad behavior can be punished by a GM. There is always an opportunity to apply some stoicism and ignore the toxic.

None. I’m glad I’m not a dev and respect to them.

1 Like