Is Hisec ganking good for the game?

[Marvyn_Nightshade]

@Dracvlad

@Marvyn_Nightshade

You don’t need an alt. Just leave a cloaky ship in a station in the zones next to it. Switch ships, scout, come back if you believe it’s clear.

But also low sec isn’t always as dangerous as people make it out to be.

Yes, but a lot can happen in the time that you switch ships, align and get to the gate to jump through as a solo character. Also people are intelligent enough to watch you. So the risk is such that it is too much for the solo hisec hauler player.

I think the problem is you’re trying to do this without using any patience.

You can still move the same amount of stuff by being patient. You haul say… 10 freighter loads to the area adjacent to Uedama, and put them all in a station.

Each time you arrive, you check Uedama. If it looks really clear (and especially if you’re seeing freighters go through safely), then go back to your ship and one after the other, you move all 10 loads past Uedama in one session.

That said: going through Low sec might actually be safer. If your cloaky ship enters a low sec system and nobody at all is on local, you’re probably safe to enter.

@Dracvlad

@Marvyn_Nightshade

I’ve heard that courier contracts are often scams. If you know the person offering the contract, you could always try contacting them, and asking them to break it into smaller parts.

I used to do some hauling for friends, but they would contract it to me and I would move it in the most suitable ships. But this is not how the hauler system works. If CCP were to adjust this mechanic to enable this, perhaps this would be enough and negate the need for any other balance.

If that was possible than it would be a good thing for solo hisec haulers.

I’m sure I understand the problem.

Can’t you just look at who the issuer is, and click on them and send them an email? If I used couriers (and I don’t because it’s more fun to haul it myself), I would want to at least get advice from some haulers about the best way to get my stuff where it needs to go.

Seems to me the problem is courier contract makers not taking into account the needs of the haulers (and probably having to pay a premium price to move their stuff as a result.)

@Ramona_McCandless

@Marvyn_Nightshade

Try competing with Shell

That goal post moved so fast it was a blur.

The problem isn’t that I don’t know how bad things are in America. I think the problem is you don’t seem to know how bad they are elsewhere.

What you have seen probably looks really bad to you.

Murder - It's 'The Real Thing!'

Outside the USA, a lot of American corporations basically act like cartels. Coca Cola has been known to hire mercenaries to outright kill union organizers in Columbia.

Do you think they would try that if a union tried to organize in the USA?

@Ramona_McCandless

@Marvyn_Nightshade

I think a lot carebears come into this game expecting business to work like it does in the first world.

But it does, thats what Im saying. The fact it doesnt match up with their fantasy about the First World or the second doesnt change that.

Even if I indulge your idea, theres plenty of Hisec systems with low to zero gank rates, like your alleged crimefree US town.

Yeah. That’s why I say you guys aren’t all that hard to dodge. Hi Sec is huge.

Carebears get mad because a lot of them are trying to operate at a very small margin and make it up in volume. Which doesn’t really work.

And here is where I will agree with you.

A lot of people think that, companies like Walmart, that’s really their whole strategy. That Walmart just accepts a narrow margin on its sales, and then sells lots and lots.

And, this is not really true. Walton’s big advantage when he started out is he was among the first people to think of using computers to manage his warehouses. He undercut his competitors because he was actually saving enough money that his costs were lower than theirs.

There is a reason CCP gives bonuses to efficiency if you set up a manufacturing array in low or Null. No risk. No reward.

[Gix_Firebrand]

What kind of noob uses courier contracts? More experience? I doubt that lol. If you had any experience, you’d know all of suggestions are valid and work.

Ain’t my fault you can’t actually play the game my boy. Bear in mind, I’ve never even ganked anyone in hi sec. So I got no dog in the fight except things are balanced. Learn how to EVE lol.

[Gix_Firebrand]

LOL so what you’re saying is you employed standard countermeasures, which worked, yet didn’t pass it on to these “friends” of yours and let them get blapped? Bro, I get it now. They were the bait amirite

You used these nubs to get your stuff through safely. Crafty. I approve.

[Wilkinson87_Akachi]

Regards to this post, yes high sec ganking is good, when code and same alike corps first poped my noctis then a day later my exhumer it convinced me to stop playing.^^Was using 3 omega account… usualy I was spending 100£-150£ a month on eve, but till theese corps exist with players that their only goal is to make other people life misserable and they enjoying to rub in their faces I will never go back to play eve.^^

[Ramona_McCandless]

@Marvyn_Nightshade

The problem isn’t that I don’t know how bad things are in America. I think the problem is you don’t seem to know how bad they are elsewhere.

You seem to be under the impression Im an American.

@Marvyn_Nightshade

Do you think they would try that if a union tried to organize in the USA?

What has that got to do with whether they operate in a xy or z country? You just mafe it clear they do operate there, so why are you again moving the goal posts?

@Marvyn_Nightshade

That’s why I say you guys aren’t all that hard to dodge.

Who is “you guys”? Who is it you are assuming I am?

Ive no idea what the bit after this is getting at. It doesnt seem relevent to me.

[Marvyn_Nightshade]

@Ramona_McCandless

@Marvyn_Nightshade

The problem isn’t that I don’t know how bad things are in America. I think the problem is you don’t seem to know how bad they are elsewhere.

You seem to be under the impression Im an American.

You were saying the first world doesn’t work the way people from the first world think it works.

It doesn’t matter where you’re from then.

It matters where the person forming the opinion is from.

In my case, for your opinion about my opinion to be an informed one, you would have to know something about America, but yes of course carebears can come from many countries.

Unfortunately I can only comment on the reality vs perception for American carebears.

Also there are probably a number of countries out there that consider themselves “first world” but which Americans consider “third world”.

@Ramona_McCandless

@Marvyn_Nightshade

Do you think they would try that if a union tried to organize in the USA?

What has that got to do with whether they operate in a xy or z country? You just mafe it clear they do operate there, so why are you again moving the goal posts?

I’m telling you how the first world differs from the third world by pointing out how the same corporate entity behaves totally differently when you put them in the two different settings.

How else can a comparison be made?

If I compare the behaviors of two different corporate entities, then there’s no way to be certain that the setting is what caused the difference in behaviors.

However, I also don’t think Coca Cola has much of a conscience, so if they decide not to use merks in the USA it’s probably not because they’re nice guys. It’s probably because they wouldn’t get away with it.

The reason they do use merks in Columbia is (probably) because they can totally get away with it.

@Ramona_McCandless

@Marvyn_Nightshade

That’s why I say you guys aren’t all that hard to dodge.

Who is “you guys”? Who is it you are assuming I am?

Ive no idea what the bit after this is getting at. It doesnt seem relevent to me

Since you spoke up for Aika, I had yes… kind of assumed you were CODE, since they fawn all over her so much.

[Dracvlad]

@Scipio_Artelius

is a Trump level superlative

Thank you for the compliment, you meant it as an insult.

@Scipio_Artelius

Ah, I get it. You were lying before, but now when you need to make a different point, you are telling the truth.

Actually until they removed the unlimited bumping I did not use them at all through the main pipe systems where the gankers concentrated, as the risk was too great, it is just that you read into that statement that I made as a total block on using freighters, but it was a little more nuanced than that.

@Marvyn_Nightshade

I think the problem is you’re trying to do this without using any patience.

You can still move the same amount of stuff by being patient. You haul say… 10 freighter loads to the area adjacent to Uedama, and put them all in a station.

Each time you arrive, you check Uedama. If it looks really clear (and especially if you’re seeing freighters go through safely), then go back to your ship and one after the other, you move all 10 loads past Uedama in one session.

That said: going through Low sec might actually be safer. If your cloaky ship enters a low sec system and nobody at all is on local, you’re probably safe to enter.

That is better, of course I have the patience as I did just this, I also had two accounts so it was easy. The people I am talking about have one account.

@Marvyn_Nightshade

I’m sure I understand the problem.

Can’t you just look at who the issuer is, and click on them and send them an email? If I used couriers (and I don’t because it’s more fun to haul it myself), I would want to at least get advice from some haulers about the best way to get my stuff where it needs to go.

Seems to me the problem is courier contract makers not taking into account the needs of the haulers (and probably having to pay a premium price to move their stuff as a result.)

The courier system is such that it creates a vulnerability that forces people to use sub-optimal strategies for the risk. I am glad you see it. All CCP has to do is setup a system to break up the contents into smaller chunks then it is not such a dumb turkey shoot…

@Siegfried_Cohenberg

I can imagine a lot of things, and you have maybe a bit more experience than the average hauler. Thats it.

I have hauled a lot over the years and have not been successfully ganked once in a hauler in hisec. That being said you were one of the people I avoided like the plague. when hauling..

[Ramona_McCandless]

@Marvyn_Nightshade

You were saying the first world doesn’t work the way people from the first world think it works.

It doesn’t matter where you’re from then.

Correct. To be fair, you brought idyllic small town USA into it, but the point stands that just because a place is better off and wealthier doesnt mean it doesnt have crime. The kind if crime and how tolerated it is varies, but to say High Sec doesnt reflect the 1st or 2nd world is fairly inaccurate given it reflects people pretty well on the whole.

@Marvyn_Nightshade

I can only comment on the reality vs perception for American carebears.

@Marvyn_Nightshade

The problem isn’t that I don’t know how bad things are in America.

How are both these statements accurate?

@Marvyn_Nightshade

Also there are probably a number of countries out there that consider themselves “first world” but which Americans consider “third world”.

Thats because Second Worlders ofc have a skewed view. Again mostly by accepting television and movies as more real than reality. Add social media into that too nowadays.

@Marvyn_Nightshade

I’m telling you how the first world differs from the third world by pointing out how the same corporate entity behaves totally differently when you put them in the two different settings.

Im telling you that they dont.

Please check on how well Blizzard and Ubisoft are currently doing in the Westerised world.

@Marvyn_Nightshade

Since you spoke up for Aika, I had yes… kind of assumed you were CODE, since they fawn all over her so much.

I suppose thats a fair assumption, however Im a carebear salvager/miner/hauler who happens to believe the ecosystem of EvE very much needs ganking and that if you get ganked its your own fault.

PS I appreciate your saltless form of discussion very much. Its refreshing.

[Arumi_Liz]

So take longer to build yourself up just in hopes they don’t choose you when gankers gank empty freighters all the time. The advice doesn’t add up. Furthermore, while people are taking your terrible advice which causes them to take much longer to get ■■■■ done, the people out in null are just having a field day experiencing no resistance coming from high sec because you’re too busy either destroying it or giving out negative advice that makes the game go from months to years. That’s why nothing ever changes without CCP doing something.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Dracvlad

Thank you for the compliment, you meant it as an insult.

When someone calls you an out of touch moron, with delusions of grandeur, it might sound like a compliment, but it’s not.

[Dracvlad]

@Scipio_Artelius

“…more experience than he can possibly imagine…” is a Trump level superlative; and based on your posting over the last couple of years, it’s backed by Trump level truth.

Is what he said.

And you are breaking forum rules with a direct insult like that so I will flag it. He is also breaking forum rules with such a post too.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Dracvlad

Is what he said.

It wasn’t intended as either an insult, nor a complement, just an observation. He is known to be a big self promoter and loose with the truth, which seemed to be relevant for the situation above.

But if it’s against the rules, then happy for the ISD to moderate it away.

[Dracvlad]

Oh yes it was intended as an insult, but you would happily like it removed, I am quite sure about that.

As for me being a self promoter, I replied to that other poster about my experience in this game as being very significant based on what he had told me what he had done recently which I also praised him for doing. For you putting someone right on my level of experience is self promoting and loose with the truth. I think there is someone self promoting here, but it is not me.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Dracvlad

but you would happily like it removed, I am quite sure about that.

I could delete it myself if I wanted to, but I don’t really care either way. Happy for it to stay, happy for it to go if that’s what your report results in. Fine either way.

@Dracvlad

about my experience in this game as being very significant

Yes I know. You were self promoting…bigly.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Dracvlad

Thank you for the compliment,

@Dracvlad

And you are breaking forum rules with a direct insult like that

So, you are simultaneously claiming the “compliment”, and yet reporting the “insult”?

[Dracvlad]

@Scipio_Artelius

Yes I know. You were self promoting…bigly.

You are like an old style record player stuck on the same scratch on the record. If you reply to someone talking about his own experience and point out ones own experience level you are self promoting in your book. All the times I have talked about my own experience have been due to replies to other people and are relevant to the discussion.

@Aiko_Danuja

So, you are simultaneously claiming the “compliment”, and yet reporting the “insult”?

Because of the way it was done, of course.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Dracvlad

talking about his own experience and point out ones own experience level you are self promoting in your book

Nah.

Saying something like “I fly freighters ever week”, blah, blah, for example. That’s just demonstrating experience.

Saying “I have more experience than you can imagine”, that’s blowing your own Trump…et. You can’t possibly know how much he can imagine, but still claim that your own experience surpasses it. That’s self-promoting…and by your own admission, also matched by being loose with the truth.

[Pan_Dora1 (Pan Dora)]

Apparently this thread developed into Pigeon Chess Championship.

I guess there will be people disgusted with that.

[Dracvlad]

Every day actually…, at least when in hisec.

All you have to do is look at what the person I replied to posted to see that I did imagine what experience he had. His experience is very limited compared to mine. That is not self-promoting. As he seems to have not lived in nullsec etc. I said correctly that he could not imagine my experience because he has not done that much in this game.

As for my little white lie, I did indeed stop using freighters, at least in the main pipes and hubs where the gankers were setup with suicide points to negate the webbers while unlimited bumping was a thing.

[Aiko_Danuja]

@Dracvlad

Because of the way it was done, of course.

I don’t think CCP is going to punish someone for complimenting you.