I find it strange that would bother anyone to such a degree.
EDIT: As an aside this was my yearly or so drop by to see the state of the game - I’ll be gone again in a few days. I felt compelled to comment on this subject as the same old story still comes up today as to the why behind a not insignificant number of new players quitting.
I dont play ED anymore but Im sure theyd totally appreciate me going on the ED forums to tell them they and Frontier they are doing it wrong.
Have you been to the ED forums lately? plenty of people posting there who have never even played the game LOL.
Sadly despite backing it for quite a bit of money I never actually played the game beyond 30 minutes or so - but I did it out of recognition of the amount of time I spent playing the original game.
To date CCP haven’t found it significant enough to change the current balance.
I get that your own anecdotes on other forums and this one are the basis for thinking it’s significant, but of the 1.3 million new accounts last year, 90% were gone in the first 7 days, nothing to do with ganking.
That’s significant; and that’s what CCP is trying to change. There is a whole heap of other things in the NPE and immediately after the NPE that are significant reasons players leave. Ganking isn’t an issue in comparison to what are the actual reasons a significant number of players leave.
That doesnt change the reactions of people who do play it to them.
I guess you missed my point. Ill try to make it more clearly in future.
I see it a bit differently to that - a good number of those players you never would have kept anyway no matter what CCP did - either the game just wasn’t what they expected, too complicated, just so much aren’t pro-active people by nature they will always hit a wall sooner or later with Eve, etc. etc. but out of those you could have done something to keep IMO being ganked by faceless alts does factor to a not insignificant percentage.
I might be wrong but I do have quite a lot of exposure to Eve as mentioned one of the other forums I frequent has a 21 thousand plus post thread on Eve with nearly 1000 people who’ve played the game to varying extents.
No I didn’t miss your point - I just haven’t seen that many people bothered about it generally as a small number here seem to get.
I post on a lot of forums for a lot of games some I play more than others - it is only really here I get a small number who seem to have such a problem with it.
Sure, but this:
It’s also not what CCP have found.
It’s just as valid to flip that and say that of the 90% that leave, there are a significant number that would have also stayed had they experienced ship loss via pvp, with ganking being as good as any.
That position is just as valid as the opposite that you assume to be true. Either is equally possible without actual analysis and CCP have done analysis on it and not found it to be a reason that a signficiant number leave, certainly not to the extent that they have been motivated to change the current balance.
Be wary that your exposure might be biased as your exposure seems to mainly consists of a subgroup of all EVE player, the ones posting on those forums.
Posters on the EVE reddit, posters on the official forum and the people from my alliance talking on our Slack, they’re all different subgroups of EVE players that I interact with, and they can have very different views of the game.
That’s not to say those people are wrong, just that what they say might not accurately reflect all EVE players.
Common misconception to my posts - but I never said new players shouldn’t be ganked. For some reason people keep missing that the point of my posts is what makes Eve stand out compared to other games is the persistence of cause and effect and getting ganked can do good things - when you have a realistic at least a chance of interacting back with the player who did it in some way - even if it more the nature of a moral victory than an actual one. For some ganks this is more true than others but for some reason a lot of new players who get ganked seem to fall victim of gankers who are less touchable than the regular ones like CODE.
It is a valid point but I don’t have just one exposure to Eve players - amongst other sources I do visit Reddit, etc. though I don’t actively use Reddit.
You have done a great job trying to explain this, however they are just doing the same old tired insult thing, trying to attack you personally.
You like me saw the result to players. Like you I do not want to see the end of ganking in the game, however what I do want to see is that it add to the game and be a source of decent content like the butterfly effect video.
When I look at mining ganking, it is pretty nicely balanced, gankers talk about Orca’s but simply bumping them away from the rocks does it. Having a red list, fitting a tank, watching local are all things that actively work.
Hauler, DST ganking is finely balanced and fun, the hauler can do the MWD cloak trick so the ganker has to be on their toes. It is not a certain thing and this is why so many gankers cry about the MWD cloak trick, if CCP ever stop this ability then you will know that CCP is on the side of easy kill gankers.
The one issue for me is the total lack of anything that helps a freighter pilot, that is why I suggested being able to break up courier contracts, and a BS MWD being something that they can fit. The spectrum lock breaker too, both require being ATK to use.
On the side of AG and opposing the gankers, the best thing that could happen is that -10 get blocked from NPC stations, it creates new conflict and content possibilities around war to remove perches and bases.
I should point out that there were many reasons that I pushed to stop unlimited time bumping, the first was it was just too frustrating for the player who ended up being bumped for a long time, they blamed CCP and the mechanics which is never good. It enabled the gankers to totally control where, when and how. It made countering them impossible because when AG had a lot of people flying around the gankers could pick and chose who they ganked knowing that AG had to pick one to defend. All they needed to do was apply several bumpers and we could not cover them, though of course we did cargo scan to work out the real target.
Now without extended bumping the conflict is more focussed and as such made it so AG can defend, the key thing to do this is to identify the target and setup for it, and to have enough people to make a difference. The changes I suggested to freighters above would make the gankers have to make quicker and more snap decisions and narrow down their choices making it more likely for AG to be in the right place.
So as such we are not that far away from having this gameplay be a benefit to the game, but it requires some fine balancing by CCP.
PS Several years ago I analysed scam ganking, this is where they bump a freighter for hours and trick the pilot into a duel, I checked on the victims of a prolific scam ganker and found that 60% of those blown up this way quit the game. CCP Falcon removed all my posts on this, and he did this while CCP was about to be purchased.
The key thing is to stop people feeling that they are only there to be a turkey in a turkey shoot for older players to enjoy a la carte.
Funny, been the exact opposite from what Ive seen.
Damien McCandless even got banned off the ED forum for “being negative” about a game he didnt play anymore.
But Im sure your right, it doesnt bother anyone to be told how you are doing something wrong by someone who hasnt done the thing in ages.
Sorry what?
I am not talking about whether you think new players should be ganked or not. I am talking about the
This is not what CCP have found. They have identified a number of other reasons behind a not insignificant number of players leaving (both new and veteran).
The current balance around ganking isn’t something that they have ever found to be one of those significant reasons.
To be honest having checked my history it is a bit longer ago that I last visited the ED forums than I thought - things might be different now.
I know and when I was actively playing the game several times they said the same thing in presentations but I disagreed with it then and still do.
IMO that the active player numbers continue to slowly decline and the new player churn is ever increasing also tends to suggest they are looking at it wrong.
EDIT: That isn’t to imply changes to ganking would magically reverse that.
What if freighter hitpoints were reduced across the board, but they were allowed to fit Capital Emergency Hull Energisers?
Freighter pilots could then get a massive survivability boost on demand if they’re not AFK hauling.
You could give freighters a bonus to remote repair - but the question would then be how do you balance that - though some of the bigger swarms such as events like Burn Eden can be putting out 40-50 thousand plus DPS or bring enough alpha no repairs would help.
EDIT: Though I don’t get the fascination with freighters there were other ways of moving a lot of stuff safer with a bit of effort - being lazier you might have to accept more risk.
Weird flex. I have a reddit account, I guess that makes me an expert on everything.
Fun fact: Rroff is pretty popular on the other forum.
Rroff is very clear that he is NOT playing EVE.
I can’t imagine spending six years whining about a game I don’t play, and then arguing with people who actually play the game, about game mechanics that I certainly no longer understand (and perhaps never did).
So just religious about it.
Even when faced with evidence, your faith keeps you clinging to your pre-conceived idea.
Cool. No more discussion needed really. Faith isn’t an easy thing to change.
Luckily CCP take a more data driven approach and not so much a faith based approch.
