I remember I used to put a t2 200mm plate on my Comet when I small gang fc’ed. I was usually primaried, being the only comet on field. Either way, it worked so well it caught on I guess. If you can psych the meta, you can create an advantage where there was none.
You can turn off the Large Anc Rep and the Cap booster and still be cap stable. You only need the cap booster 150’s when the Large Anc Rep is running.
Remember that half the time the Large Anc Rep will be unactive while reloading. Remember that in an emergency you can continue using the large anc rep without paste as well and it will still be better than a Medium Armor Rep II.
The Cap booster 400’s are only for when ■■■■ hits the fan (if you get neuted out).
Thus you can run all 5 armor reps with the cap booster.
You can run all 4 regular reps without the cap booster at 30% cap stability.
The fit boasts 100k ehp and over 95% resists against non-em damage with reactive hardener (88% resists omni with hardener) and 92% resists against pure-em damage. It tops out at 97% resists against Kinetic (laughs at missile boats).
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Okay I see where you going with that. Pretty solid tanking tbs.
If it works then go with it!
If you’re not worried about neuts you can replace cap booster with sebo + script (eccm vs ecm, target range/scan vs damps), because technically you’re never going to perma run the large anc rep (you get 3 minutes of cap using large rep without cap booster). I haven’t tried it yet but I might supply my guard pilots with a sebo in cargo hold and put a mobile depot in the FC Astarte or Loki for them. It seems my guards always die to massive alpha fleets or ecm balls.
Where did I compare them?? I said they belong to the same ship class and made the differences very clear.
Maybe you should fly logi for a bit yourself and make your own fits. The Oneiros / Exequror and scimitar / scythe are fine as they are. Your comparison is lopsided.
I should send you a message ingame with my logi fits?
I was the one comparing them, by the way I’ve seen them used and how often. You made the distinction yourself about small gang vs fleet. Whatever your disagreements, their fitting is clearly lopsided, if anything is, allowing them so much versatility and extra repair power with undersized repairers or cap transfers. The only one I didn’t have much experience flying is a basi. Your welcome to post those oneiros fleet fits here. Aside from their resist profiles, I don’t see them being used in place of guards in large fights. I think you just got used to the niche roles they fell into and can’t see the argument being made about how the cap chains dominate in fleet way beyond the point where the others hit a ceiling in that regard.
Ships being somewhat predictable in the meta is unfortunate. Repair drones are set to assist petty often or left on another predesignated friendly and there they stay, or get left behind. Not too many pilots have t2 repair drones.
Unless you found a magical way to increase cargo space for cap boosters, don’t bother.
I don’t give out my fits for free, after spending many months tweaking and testing them. If you want them, my wallet says hi.
There is a huge difference in perception here. And you should not always believe everything you hear. “Seeing them being used” is not a good place to make assumptions of.
As I said, the Oneiros / Exequror are suitable for small gangs of the size 3-6 pilots. Anything bigger and you want the cap chain ones. Not because of the higher amount of reps but the chaos you are about to be in.
If you run into a bigger gangs than yours, you won’t be able to put reps on anyone in dire need in time, so your cap chain buddies will have an easier time spreading their reps.
I believe the listed fit is flawed. You don’t want to fly an Oneiros with more than 6 pilots.
You can look at the values I collected and listed here:
What is your deal with cap boosters? My Oneiros / Exequror and even my solo-Guardian fits do not require any.
There’s only two ways you can accomplish this.
1: You retained your resist rigs and fit all medium reppers.
2: You dropped your resist rigs and used Repair Augmentor Rigs
In case number 1 you’d get the same performance out of an exequror with a little less tank.
In case number 2 you’ll get blapped.
I deploy 4 of these Oneiros at a time against small/medium fleets with ECM. They have 56k ehp (with links) and 89% resists and get 3000 hp/s and 86 sensor strength. When the large anc rep is running with paste it gets 4200 hp/s
I consider these to be very effective and very viable for PvP. I do not, however see how you can fit an Onerios for medium sized fleet combat in any other way that does not involve cap boosters.
[Oneiros, Valhalla Necromancer]
Armor Explosive Hardener II
800mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Armor EM Hardener II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Armor Explosive Hardener II
10MN Afterburner II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
Sensor Booster II, ECCM Script
Sensor Booster II, ECCM Script
Large Ancillary Remote Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Medium Anti-Thermal Pump II
Medium Anti-Thermal Pump II
Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5
Nanite Repair Paste x320
Navy Cap Booster 800 x24
Look at my values and tell me again how the Exequror with 3x medium reps and the Oneiros with 4x large reps do about the same? I would argue the Oneiros reps twice as much as an Exequror.
I can’t see your fits you haven’t posted them. There’s no way you’re running 4 large reps on an onerios without a cap booster unless you git repair augmentor rigs at the expense of shredding your resists.
And I never made such a claim. I said anything above a gang size of 6 should be using Guardians / Basilisks. Why some of you want to make the Oneiros a fleet boat escapes me.
The fitting I provided above is a viable medium fleet boat.
Sounds interesting but what is your definition of “medium size”?
If you ask a goon member, she will say 800 people is “medium size” and my definition of “medium size” is below 15. In both cases you cannot switch your reps fast enough to attend to all of your gang mates.
Seeing that I’m fielding 4 of these at a time against medium ecm fleets, around 25-30.
I do have one cap stable oneiros fitting with 800mm bling plate and a variation using a 1600mm bling plate, but I’ve never purchased/fitted/field them before, so I don’t know how they would actually perform. They also require so much bling I’d rather just have a Guardian. That being said I’ll post this old and unused fit:
First the 800mm plate, it’s cap stable assuming you reload the large anc rep when it runs out of paste:. It has 65kehp and 90% resists with armor links, moves 1km/s and puts out 4khp/s with anc rep (4700 heated), 2800 without anc rep (3100 heated). It has the added bonus of being immune to neuts.
[Oneiros Bling 800m]
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Imperial Navy 800mm Steel Plates
Armor EM Hardener II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Gistum A-Type 10MN Afterburner
Domination Medium Cap Battery
Domination Medium Cap Battery
Domination Medium Cap Battery
Large Ancillary Remote Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer
Medium Anti-Thermal Pump II
Medium Anti-Thermal Pump II
Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5
Nanite Repair Paste x320
The second fit is 1600m bling plate, it trades an anti-thermal pump for an ancillary rig, giving it 97k ehp and 88% resists
[Oneiros, 1600mm bling]
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Imperial Navy 1600mm Steel Plates
Armor EM Hardener II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Gistum A-Type 10MN Afterburner
Domination Medium Cap Battery
Domination Medium Cap Battery
Cap Recharger II
Large Ancillary Remote Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repairer
Medium Anti-Thermal Pump II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Armor Maintenance Bot II x5
Nanite Repair Paste x320
I really don’t know I would field these bling boats over a guardian which equalizes this onerios with far less bling unless I really wanted the extra 250m/s speed, which goes to Oreb’s main point, the Oneiros should be viable (with a non-bling fit) for large scale PvP. The trade off could very simply be 33% extra speed (oneiros, as in above bling fit)) vs 25% extra repping power (guardian, as in above guard fit).
I used to have a legion logi for my VG fleet before changes, it could self rep a hole site while repping someone else.
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KAll this talk of “yeah but oneiros because muh cap stability”
Yes its cap stable, but even a true stable with with no cap injectors usually get ■■■■■■ by neuts. Guardians are muh better for fleets because an organised guardian wing is very hard to neut out and if you take something like RnK’s kaboose fit guardian it gets like 88% average resists with heated hardeners with around 125k ehp total with tiny sig. Oneiros is great in smaller engagement but it simply is inferior to a group of guardians in big engagements.
Also, with the Kaboose fit you have like 2 cap guardians with 6 large xfers. They send 2 to each other and 2 to each rep guardian, meaning 2 cap/4 rep. The rep guardians have 5 large reps and a large cap xfer so it can rep alot more than the oneiros whilst also allowing it to keep a friendly capped up, it allows you to send an extra xfer to a guard under neut pressure, or a friendly bhaalgorn that is neuting enemy logi, or a friendly dps ship to keep his hardeners online whilst it gets primaried etc. Simply put th guardian is just a much superior ship. Past 6 logi the oneiros is inferior to the guardian. Simple.
No one in this thread has advocated for using Oneiros in large scale PvP. All you did was reaffirm everything we already stated in this thread.