Is there any plans to close the loop hole that is ganking?

[Vokan_Narkar]

Another options:
-Mine actively and be pre-aligned, check killboard of your region for miner gankers and tag them + CODE. and goons. If you see anyone red in your sector dock immediately.
-Also, try mine on farthest belt from gate so you will have more time to warp away when they come.
-Orbit, yes even in barge. This really screws catalysts, especially if the pilots are -10 - they cannot approach for longer time.
-Spawn concord on your belt using alt that will shoot your barge in rookie ship. It is not 100% protection but will certainly help. Either they have to bring 1 more ship, or they have to pull it away in which case you should notice before they come even if you mine semi-afk.

[Dom_Arkaral]

@Tirkibo

I believe, for the majority, ganking is perfectly acceptable and fun way to play the game.

It is. You should give it a try even
Not just to have some fun, but to learn the mechanics involved.

@Tirkibo

However, its far too easy and the billions of ISK earned by ganking is rather unbalanced

It’s as easy as the target makes it.
It’s still hard because of all the outside factors.

@Tirkibo

this is type of game play should have similar consequences?

It already does have consequences:
Ship loss
Sec status loss
No insurance
And the list goes on and on

[Teckos_Pech]

@Anderson_Geten

Because they get killed eventually. So the matter is not "can I get killed " or “how much does it cost”, for which you can give numbers but that will only be your own predications, and they can be completely wrong (people can get paid for this, people can do it for the lulz).

That is a possibility. But this is what I love about these threads. Very infrequently people actually look through the kill boards. Most procurer kills occur with only moderate tank on a very tankable ship. And tankable for not that more than fitting for yield. So your entire hypothesis is at best weak. Most likely it is flat out wrong.

@Anderson_Geten

The matter is just “how fast does it pay back”, ie the isk/h/isk ratio. The guy who fitted his barge for tank lost MORE than the guy who fitted his barge for yield. The additional money gankers had to pay did not go back in his wallet. He is the one who lost the most on that KM.

Assuming they mine the same amount of time sure. But my point is that being the harder target will result in the yield fit being the preferred target.

You are free to disagree and pursue another strategy but the point remains

1. There few procurer ganks on zkill.
2. Of those ganked few have a tank over 80,000 EHP.

So my conclusion is that tanking a procurer is a sound strategy.

You…you got nothing but an unsubstantiated hypothesis.

@Anderson_Geten

All those “easy tank lol” fit you give are just nonsense. They don’t prevent people from ganking you.

I never claimed that a tanked procurers can’t be ganked. Minier ganking usually focuses on soft targets like retrievers. Look through retriever losses and you see lots of ganks. Hmmmm…why don’t you tell me why that could be?

@Anderson_Geten

Just because YOU have some reasons and some modus operandi, does not mean this is the only way to think of ganking. For some people it’s just a way to spend money another alt has collected doing pve.

And yet we see few procurer and skiff kills, especially when tanked.

[Angry_RedGummyBear]

There’s no scram on that procurer.
I’m so confused.

Why is there no scram on that procurer?
And why is there a bulkhead instead of a Drone Damage amp?
How are you going to remove gankers like kebab if you don’t have drone damage and scrams?

[ISD_Buldath]

I removed a “few” Grossly off topic Posts and responses from this thread, and those quoting them.

~Buldath

Edit: A few innocent posts got caught in the Purge. Roughly 10 posts were returned to normalcy.

[Dom_Arkaral]

That’s about 150 posts lol

I feel bad for you, even tho it’s your job to do this

[Anderson_Geten]

I think you deleted a post of someone which was not off topic. The one to which salvos answered “do you know x and y ?”

[Dom_Arkaral]

@Major_Errogance

It is not allowed to use one omega and one alpha account or more than one alpha on the same PC.

@Salvos_Rhoska

This is incorrect.

Major is correct
You can’t dual box an alpha and omega on the same box.

And edited since I didn’t see my post was still up hahahaha
Rip

[Teckos_Pech]

You can go for a bait procurer too, sure. Most people who mine aren’t interested in that though. There used to be a youtube video years ago of a guy in a tanked exhumer, I want to say a hulk, who had a bait hulk and he’d kill can flippers up to an including a BS, IIRC.

[Anderson_Geten]

@Teckos_Pech

And yet we see few procurer and skiff kills, especially when tanked.

Maybe this means there is less procurer and skiff to gank ?

@Teckos_Pech

Minier ganking usually focuses on soft targets like retrievers. Look through retriever losses and you see lots of ganks. Hmmmm…why don’t you tell me why that could be?

You make a mistake here. I do not affirm what is, I only state that your opinion is biased (because you are part of one group of gankers).

Plus, you are taking a correlation for a causation.
As I said already, if everybody was tanked in a proc full ehp, then gankers would still gank them. Different gankers, different technics ; your opinion is that they are ganked because they are not in tanked proc ; my opinion is that “they are not in tanked proc because they are still ganked in said proc” is a possible one.

then let’s look at number.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5bp0sm/mining_yield_with_the_november_update/
https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ore/

max yield on kernite with covetor = 237*(166439+27000) = 45.8M/h
max yield on proc = 27M1. remove 2 laser upgrades =>22.8M/h

A yield-covetor makes double the yield of a tank-procurer
That means every 2H of mining without a gank you gain an additional covetor when mining in a covetor.

[ImGayPwnd]

Why would anyone mine in hisec . Bunch of scrubs itt.

[Anderson_Geten]

Because CODE. needs love.

[Major_Errogance]

Above, you will find some good tips, @Tirkibo Can you add the good ideas in point in your original post?

Also for your entertainment a nice artwork :
Snip- While a bit giggle worthy, lets not restart what I just cleaned up. Thanks! ~Buldath -Snip

[Teckos_Pech]

@Anderson_Geten

Maybe this means there is less procurer and skiff to gank ?

Possibly.

@Anderson_Geten

You make a mistake here. I do not affirm what is, I only state that your opinion is biased (because you are part of one group of gankers).

I rarely gank miners. I dabbled in it a bit…like less than 10 ganks at most.

Now freighters…I only gank during Burn events.

@Anderson_Geten

Plus, you are taking a correlation for a causation.

Yeah, because I have a theory: you don’t have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun the guy next to you.

Or in this case: you don’t have to tank any and all gank attempts, you just have to be less gankable than the guy next to you.

When we look for ganks for skiffs and procurers they are far less common. Yes, we don’t know how often they are used, so it could be partly due to that. But again, why are people not going for the procurer or the skiff? Why are there, proportionately, more retrievers, macks and hulks that can be ganked? Because people do not want to tank their ship and give up the yield. Fine. But then you have to accept the higher risk that your decision entails. Crying on the forums is just that…crying. Crying over a decision to take on risk and then blubbering about how it bit you on the butt.

@Anderson_Geten

As I said already, if everybody was tanked in a proc full ehp, then gankers would still gank them.

And if there were magic unicorns…

@Anderson_Geten

max yield on kernite with covetor = 237*(166439+27000) = 45.8M/h

max yield on proc = 27M1. remove 2 laser upgrades =>22.8M/h

A yield-covetor makes double the yield of a tank-procurer

That means every 2H of mining without a gank you gain an additional covetor when mining in a covetor.

Sure. Maybe you should go back and re-read my initial comment because you are really screwing up here.

Seriously you are arguing against a position I have not taken. I already noted that if you want to focus on yeild then go for it, but just factor in that you will likely be ganked more frequently. Figure out which strategy works for you and go for it. I noted this days ago.

Holy crap…

Edit:

Here is what I wrote 12 days ago.

Alternatively you can [fit] for pure yield and just expect to die periodically and factor that into your calculations.

In any event, if you opt for this strategy you are going to eventually get ganked. It is part of the strategy you opted for. Accept it, put on your big boy/girl pants and move on. You took on more risk. Either inadvertently or knowingly…if you did it by mistake. Either change your strategy or HTFU.

[Anderson_Geten]

There was two separate points in my post.
In the first I do argue that people can as well tank their procurer, it won’t prevent them from being ganked. Thus we may as well consider the causation from “being ganked in proc” to “useless to fit for tank”, hence “less procurer are ganked”.
I am only saying here, your interpretation is not the only one that makes sense. I am not crying, I can give you my experience of people who got ganked by CODE. in a procurer while having fitted for tank, but I never was ganked in HS (and yes they had much less than 100k ehp - cause skills you know ?)

My second part is just number. I don’t argue, just give number. My real idea was to compare the yield, because you said they were comparable So the comparison is : twice yield for covetor.
So I don’t really get where I am screwing. I am not arguing against you, I just give numbers. Holy crap.

[Your_Ex-Girlfriend]

@Anderson_Geten

@Teckos_Pech

And yet we see few procurer and skiff kills, especially when tanked.

Maybe this means there is less procurer and skiff to gank ?

Have you actually travelled around highsec? Most of what I see mining anymore are procs and skiffs. Your supposition is not supported by reality.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Anderson_Geten

In the first I do argue that people can as well tank their procurer, it won’t prevent them from being ganked.

A completely banal statement. If somebody or some group wants a ship dead, it is dead.

The point is that tanking your procurer makes your ship less likely to be ganked.

This is supported, IMO, by killboard data. Your point about relative proportions of the mining population would be persuasive in gankers ganked randomly, but they don’t.

@Anderson_Geten

I am only saying here, your interpretation is not the only one that makes sense. I am not crying, I can give you my experience of people who got ganked by CODE. in a procurer while having fitted for tank, but I never was ganked in HS (and yes they had much less than 100k ehp - cause skills you know ?)

Which do not show up on the killboards.

My view is this:

Players who gank mining ships are not just randomly ganking. Miners face a trade off between tank and yield. In looking at the killboards, players seem to prefer yield. They choose yield either knowingly or unknowingly inspite of the increased risk of being ganked. After all, a poorly fit retriever can be ganked by a suitably skilled catalyst pilot. Seven gankers could gank up to 7 retrievers or 1 procurer. Even a moderately tanked hulk is vulnerable.

[Hulk, Sedaria Khurelem’s Hulk]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Thermal Dissipation Field I
ML-3 Scoped Survey Scanner

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit II

Hobgoblin I x2
Hobgoblin I x3
Mining Drone I x1
Mining Drone I x4

That guy has about 15,400 EHP. A skilled cat pilot could take him down with a bit of luck.

So yeah, tanking a procurer/skiff right now would likely reduce your risk of being ganked.

[Anderson_Geten]

@Teckos_Pech

Your point about relative proportions of the mining population would be persuasive in gankers ganked randomly, but they don’t.

That is the opinion I say is biased. Just because you don’t gank randomly, does not mean that a miner should not expect to get ganked randomly. I talked with people who did not care about killing or not, who just ganked for the fun.
AND as I said, if every people fitted for tank, still they would be ganked.

I think you don’t understand what I’m saying. You say the “best fit” to not get ganked is to fit for tank. That is wrong, the best fit is to not undock. Even in a tanked proc they would eventually get ganked. And they would make less money.

And yes, I just visited some systems yesterday to get bpos @jita. Saw lots of macks on dscan. did not notice many proc, nor many hulk/covetor. Did not search a lot though.

[Teckos_Pech]

@Anderson_Geten

That is the opinion I say is biased. Just because you don’t gank randomly, does not mean that a miner should not expect to get ganked randomly.

This is just silly. Clearly we see purposeful behavior…to then turn around and claim randomness is not simply biased it is just silly.

@Anderson_Geten

I talked with people who did not care about killing or not, who just ganked for the fun.

Ganking for fun does not mean random ganking.

@Anderson_Geten

AND as I said, if every people fitted for tank, still they would be ganked.

But they don’t, this is at best a thought experiment that is of limited use.

@Anderson_Geten

I think you don’t understand what I’m saying. You say the “best fit” to not get ganked is to fit for tank. That is wrong, the best fit is to not undock. Even in a tanked proc they would eventually get ganked. And they would make less money.

You can’t do any mining that way. Seriously you glomb on to statement that is does not articulate all possible aspects in an obvious manner and then run down a rather goofy rabbit hole.

As for ISK it depends. Grabbing a covetor sure you can make more ISK/hour, but you’ll be far more likely to lose that ship. A covetor can mine more/hour, but it can also be easily solo’d by a pilot with even a moderate amount of SP. So it boils down to the likelihood of being ganked. The more likely a ship is to be ganked, then that will eat into your profits. And if you have to spend time reshipping that too eats into your ISK/hour. Yeah, sure the covetor will probably win out…but oddly enough people are using the startegy that gets them the most ISK and they show up and whine.

Oh, and there are a fair number hulks getting ganked. If anything people are using very sub-optimal strategies. Using a hulk which is far, far more expensive and probably does not come with a commensurate increase in ISK/hour. And the mackinaw is like the retriever a gank magnate.

Overall, I find complaints about ganking positively amusing. People using dubous strategies and then whining about it vs. going on and learning from their mistakes.

[Anderson_Geten]

What I say is, you don’t consider the thing from a miner point of view.
You consider only from your experience, thus have biases on how miner understand ganking.
When you can’t predict if you get ganked, then it is the definition of random gank.

You can get ganked in a proc, you can get ganked in a covetor, for some people it’s just a matter of luck.
So no, they don’t have the choice.
Let’ be honnest, in one hour in a carrier you can make 12 catalysts. (in bounty,that is direct cash). how long does it take to find a target, prepare a setup for the 6-cata gank, then kill target, and wait for criminal flag to end - twice ? 40min ? Yeah, in a super it’s even faster and you can create more cataganks than you can gank people with in an hour.
While the miners have much lower income, thus lose a lot more.
And that’s for your “full tank procurer”