That’s not what following statistics say :
Maybe we’re crossing stream here and missing each other’s points.
I understand that botters are used anywhere that menial tasks can be done with relative safety. This discussion targets NPC bounties and exploitation due to the pure isk return rather than blue loot. Countering the argument with “botters will just start farming L1 missions” is a pretty weak argument. The relative return on L1 missions vs NPC ratting in a Titan would require a massive increase in bots used.
AFK Ratting is a separate issue also address by bounties to blue loot change because the player can’t just leave the computer, they have to collect and haul the goods. Like you point out they can get hot dropped at anytime, so unlike bounties their work isn’t autosaved directly to their wallets.
First of all, it’s top priority to get rid of bots, wherever they are as they are bad for a good economy.
Second of all, bots are elusive and adaptive. So making one big change in nullsec will make an enormous result in the effects on (low/wormhole and) high sec as people need a lot of ISK to buy Titans, FAXes, Dreads, etc. The wars in nullsec drain trillions of ISK. Spacestations are also being wrecked. If the nullsec entities can’t rebuild, stagnation will follow and the game will reach it’s end.
All that aside botting should never be done as it destroys a game, look at what gambling did to EVE Online!
This is also faulty logic. The creation of more raw isk devalues the existing pool of it. Destruction of space stations, ships, etc simply ups the demand for those components. Stagnation never occurs because the destruction of those components increases industry demand giving those players better bottom lines. Their movement of goods makes and need for defense gives more targets for smaller PvP groups etc.
This is an issue. While I appreciate that a change directly effects your alliance, it doesn’t mean something shouldn’t change for the benefit of the whole.
Feel free to remove bounties from npcs. We will just reorganise and grab more isk from alternatives. The numer is high due to us being the best organised alliance. Or other alliances not intrested in raw ISK and being mediocre in other fields.
Not every one can BEE the best.
It is sad you call us botters hiding behind some forum alt. CCP can see the statistics too and keeps an eye on our activities. Botters have and wil be removed from the game from every corp. We are not successfull due to botting.
Next time proove botting. You are anti goon and don’t care about level 1 mission bots making new players lives hard as fp is nearly worthless.
All I can say is, FIGHT EVIL BOTTERS! JOIN THE BEST CORP!
I think this thread containing a lot of unsubstantiated rumours against one of the most fun corporations in nullsec" should be closed! Please, @CCP_Falcon !
Actually, this is my main character. I’m a High-Sec player that’s been playing the game for about 2 months, and I’m simply giving feedback as I see it. I simply am not afraid to use my main, because as a High-Sec player I have so little to lose. I’m not anti any group, but raw data directly shows that there is a MASSIVE flood of raw ISK pouring into Delve, and null in general.
Your alliance is very well organized and as a guild lead of various groups over the years, it’s a feat to herd that many cats. A change of this variety shouldn’t worry or effect such an organization, and honestly your group should WANT such a change since it gives your players more isk worthy targets.
I can agree with your demand of removal of NPC and player bounties. We can make ISK in many other ways.
Your suggestion will NOT stop any botting at all.
I am worried as you state :
“REMOVING BOUNTIES WILL STOP BOTTING.”
This is a false statement.
I’ll cease responding to your argument at this point since you’re clearly trolling at this point.
No request was ever made to remove bounties, simply the bounty mechanic of paying raw ISK. Using blue loot instead of raw ISK has a large range of benefits as stated throughout the thread. I take your defensiveness and straw-man arguments as your agreement, thanks for your time
captcha every half-hour might help
Sure, you have zero arguments. You know that in null people can just recycle the stuff they get from loot into capital ships, right? Just another proof that you are here just slurring other players and should be banned.
No proof, just accusations from you. Did we blow up your alt’s keepstar? Well, too bad for you, just make another one.
Captach for each post will help a little. Then 1 PLEX per post. That will probably stop @Dragos_Highwind from falsely accusing goonswarm of botting. It’s sad he’s not banned yet.
Just subscribe. I looked at your zkillboard you aren’t going to plex your accounts with abyssal only.
Okay, as a person who lives in Nullsec, does ratting and mining in nullsec, and generally is nullsec, im gonna clear up a few misconceptions, and also call out things that are blatantly wrong.
First off, most people do not get 2 bill an hour from ratting. The average that most, if not all players make, even with ratting in supers, is around 300 mill an hour.
The only way youre going to make 2 bill an hour is if you find an officer and you get officer loot from the wreck. I.e. its in the form of loot, and not bounty.
Secondly, people do not get isk in the form of bounties, from missions. They get it in the form of LP, the Loyalty Points. Isk is very very little in terms of mission running, you are going to get the majority of your isk from using the LP store and finding profitable things to buy and sell.
Thats the whole point of “Blitzing” a mission. If youre blitzing a mission, you are running it in the most efficient way possible, only killing what you need to in order to finish the mission as fast as you can. Which means that you will not kill most of what is on field, unless you have to. Therefore, bounties are largely irrelevant to mission runners.
So yes, botters do mine hisec. Not in the form of bounties, but in the form of LP, which is what you would be mining if you were a mission runner.
Thirdly, no. The point about Botting. I can activate a bot and leave it running overnight while i sleep. While im at work. While im at a friends house. While watching TV.
Can I run sites in a carrier while im asleep? While im at work? While im at a friends house? Probably not very efficiently, no.
I think you have a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings about nullsec.
Thanks Solo for your constructive insight.
I’m curious where the numbers are coming from if this is the case. I’m not directly targeting Delve (mainly), but to use that area as an example there was 12T worth of bounties collect. Not officer loot, not wreck loot, pure bounties. At 300m per hour that is 40,000 hours worth of bounties in ratting. How would your operation as a Nullsec ratter be impacted by a change of bounties from instant Isk returns to blue loot?
HiSec LP mining is a completely separate issue. LP doesn’t create isk, it merely creates an item that is then sold for ISK. While not good, it doesn’t create inflation.
By definition, it mostly is.
You also have conundrum of a big portion of the bounties is being produced by one group. Nerfing isk for this group could be too much of a nerf for the others. Or nerfing just enough for the others could give a significant advantage to this one group.
By CCP own report there was almost a 3% inflation in one month. That’s an insane amount for game as market centric as EVE.
While I agree a change if this magnitude would have a greater effect on the regions pulling in trillions from it, areas making that much should have the means to get the commodity back to the purchasing NPC stations. To pull a page from null sec vocab on stations “if you can’t defend it, you don’t deserve it”.
Not by a lot. We would just plop down an MTU and go to the next site. It would make things more annoying, but were known for adapting to circumstances when they change.
But since your original assumption was incorrect, everything else that you wrote, is kinda pointless. Lets not forget the fact that Incursions bring in about 100 million isk an hour. Thats in hisec. And you can run it in a 400 million isk cheap battleship and still get the same amount.
This is in hisec. Hisec. In a ship that is a fraction of the cost.
In nullsec, i fly a 18 billion isk Supercarrier. But a supercarrier will cost anywhere between 16 and 25 billion isk. And most will only pull around 300 mill an hour.
So, i spend a ship that is anywhere between 4 to 45 times more expensive, in a place that is far more hostile, and only make around 3 times more than a ship in hisec running incursions.
But back to your question. Again, no, it wont. Were good at what we do. If the meta changes, if CCP changes the rules, we adapt.
The real question you should be asking is, why is Delve making so much in bounties, when the other nullsec constellations arent making even nearly as much?
This was in response to your open ended question of “For those saying that botters mine high sec… um…” You cant use the bounties graph to demonstrate this, because botters dont mine for bounty isk, they mine for LP.
No, and Daichi Yamato is saying the opposite.
The nerf is going to have a greater effect on the region pulling only a couple hundred million, than it is from the region that is pulling trillions, like Delve.