Isk bounties and npc loot question

Communications Center General Discussion
21

Feel free to remove bounties from npcs. We will just reorganise and grab more isk from alternatives. The numer is high due to us being the best organised alliance. Or other alliances not intrested in raw ISK and being mediocre in other fields.

Not every one can BEE the best.

It is sad you call us botters hiding behind some forum alt. CCP can see the statistics too and keeps an eye on our activities. Botters have and wil be removed from the game from every corp. We are not successfull due to botting.

Next time proove botting. You are anti goon and don’t care about level 1 mission bots making new players lives hard as fp is nearly worthless.

22

All I can say is, FIGHT EVIL BOTTERS! JOIN THE BEST CORP!

23

I think this thread containing a lot of unsubstantiated rumours against one of the most fun corporations in nullsec" should be closed! Please, @CCP_Falcon !

24

Actually, this is my main character. I’m a High-Sec player that’s been playing the game for about 2 months, and I’m simply giving feedback as I see it. I simply am not afraid to use my main, because as a High-Sec player I have so little to lose. I’m not anti any group, but raw data directly shows that there is a MASSIVE flood of raw ISK pouring into Delve, and null in general.

Your alliance is very well organized and as a guild lead of various groups over the years, it’s a feat to herd that many cats. A change of this variety shouldn’t worry or effect such an organization, and honestly your group should WANT such a change since it gives your players more isk worthy targets.

2 Likes
25

I can agree with your demand of removal of NPC and player bounties. We can make ISK in many other ways.

Your suggestion will NOT stop any botting at all.

I am worried as you state :

“REMOVING BOUNTIES WILL STOP BOTTING.”

This is a false statement.

26

I’ll cease responding to your argument at this point since you’re clearly trolling at this point.

No request was ever made to remove bounties, simply the bounty mechanic of paying raw ISK. Using blue loot instead of raw ISK has a large range of benefits as stated throughout the thread. I take your defensiveness and straw-man arguments as your agreement, thanks for your time :slight_smile:

1 Like
27

captcha every half-hour might help

28

Sure, you have zero arguments. You know that in null people can just recycle the stuff they get from loot into capital ships, right? Just another proof that you are here just slurring other players and should be banned.

No proof, just accusations from you. Did we blow up your alt’s keepstar? Well, too bad for you, just make another one.

29

Captach for each post will help a little. Then 1 PLEX per post. That will probably stop @Dragos_Highwind from falsely accusing goonswarm of botting. It’s sad he’s not banned yet.

30

Just subscribe. I looked at your zkillboard you aren’t going to plex your accounts with abyssal only.

31

Okay, as a person who lives in Nullsec, does ratting and mining in nullsec, and generally is nullsec, im gonna clear up a few misconceptions, and also call out things that are blatantly wrong.

First off, most people do not get 2 bill an hour from ratting. The average that most, if not all players make, even with ratting in supers, is around 300 mill an hour.

The only way youre going to make 2 bill an hour is if you find an officer and you get officer loot from the wreck. I.e. its in the form of loot, and not bounty.

Secondly, people do not get isk in the form of bounties, from missions. They get it in the form of LP, the Loyalty Points. Isk is very very little in terms of mission running, you are going to get the majority of your isk from using the LP store and finding profitable things to buy and sell.

Thats the whole point of “Blitzing” a mission. If youre blitzing a mission, you are running it in the most efficient way possible, only killing what you need to in order to finish the mission as fast as you can. Which means that you will not kill most of what is on field, unless you have to. Therefore, bounties are largely irrelevant to mission runners.

So yes, botters do mine hisec. Not in the form of bounties, but in the form of LP, which is what you would be mining if you were a mission runner.

Thirdly, no. The point about Botting. I can activate a bot and leave it running overnight while i sleep. While im at work. While im at a friends house. While watching TV.

Can I run sites in a carrier while im asleep? While im at work? While im at a friends house? Probably not very efficiently, no.

I think you have a lot of misconceptions and misunderstandings about nullsec.

3 Likes
32

Thanks Solo for your constructive insight.

I’m curious where the numbers are coming from if this is the case. I’m not directly targeting Delve (mainly), but to use that area as an example there was 12T worth of bounties collect. Not officer loot, not wreck loot, pure bounties. At 300m per hour that is 40,000 hours worth of bounties in ratting. How would your operation as a Nullsec ratter be impacted by a change of bounties from instant Isk returns to blue loot?

HiSec LP mining is a completely separate issue. LP doesn’t create isk, it merely creates an item that is then sold for ISK. While not good, it doesn’t create inflation.

33

By definition, it mostly is.

You also have conundrum of a big portion of the bounties is being produced by one group. Nerfing isk for this group could be too much of a nerf for the others. Or nerfing just enough for the others could give a significant advantage to this one group.

34

By CCP own report there was almost a 3% inflation in one month. That’s an insane amount for game as market centric as EVE.

While I agree a change if this magnitude would have a greater effect on the regions pulling in trillions from it, areas making that much should have the means to get the commodity back to the purchasing NPC stations. To pull a page from null sec vocab on stations “if you can’t defend it, you don’t deserve it”.

35

Not by a lot. We would just plop down an MTU and go to the next site. It would make things more annoying, but were known for adapting to circumstances when they change.

But since your original assumption was incorrect, everything else that you wrote, is kinda pointless. Lets not forget the fact that Incursions bring in about 100 million isk an hour. Thats in hisec. And you can run it in a 400 million isk cheap battleship and still get the same amount.

This is in hisec. Hisec. In a ship that is a fraction of the cost.

In nullsec, i fly a 18 billion isk Supercarrier. But a supercarrier will cost anywhere between 16 and 25 billion isk. And most will only pull around 300 mill an hour.

So, i spend a ship that is anywhere between 4 to 45 times more expensive, in a place that is far more hostile, and only make around 3 times more than a ship in hisec running incursions.

But back to your question. Again, no, it wont. Were good at what we do. If the meta changes, if CCP changes the rules, we adapt.

The real question you should be asking is, why is Delve making so much in bounties, when the other nullsec constellations arent making even nearly as much?

This was in response to your open ended question of “For those saying that botters mine high sec… um…” You cant use the bounties graph to demonstrate this, because botters dont mine for bounty isk, they mine for LP.

36

No, and Daichi Yamato is saying the opposite.

The nerf is going to have a greater effect on the region pulling only a couple hundred million, than it is from the region that is pulling trillions, like Delve.

37

I hadn’t looked at incursions and honestly didn’t know they paid out pure ISK rewards. Looking at the data it didn’t hit my radar because they don’t even amount to 10 trillion in the entirity of all incursions. I do agree however that it should pay out in NPC commodities as well. Also note that it requires a fleet and they have limited periods.

The effect if the ratting commodity changes would directly correlate to a corp/alliance ability to get the commodity back to high/low board space. The effect would be equal across the board and give lowsec some value. A large group pulling in trillions in commodities arguably has more to lose because the supply route back is more lucrive to hunters.

38

Well, now id like to know why you think any of the isk made through bounties/rewards should be payed out in NPC commodities.

Why would you think this is noteworthy. A super cap pilot will either have to have a huge fleet of support ships, like us, or have to dock up every time a neutral, or enemy, jumps into his system.

And in case you didnt know, incursions are constantly happening all across hisec. Each incursion has limited periods, incursion as a whole does not.

No, it wouldnt. Why would you think it would?

Again, no. We routinely move trillions in and out of delve to hisec all the time, every month. The reason why these jump freighters arent being killed by the dozens every month is, again, because theyre very good at it.

And this seems to be a key problem that you fail to understand.

A larger group has better logistics, because they have the industrial backbone, knowledge and experience to pull it off. More importantly, they have the funds to set up more relay stations and citadels to help them move things, and if need be, fleets to protect and guard ships.

Smaller groups, dont have this. They cant reliably move their stuff, on a regular basis.

Larger groups will have less to lose, because they can afford to lose it. For smaller groups, if they are less reliable at moving things, then if they do lose their ships on the supply route, it hits them harder, far far more painful, than the larger groups.

This is why i told you, the real question you should be asking is, why is Delve making so much in bounties, when the other nullsec constellations arent making even nearly as much?

Youve completely ignored the question, and so ive been forced to answer for you.

39

Because NPC commodies involve a risk of transportation and gatehring. Yes you can simply use an MTU, however you have to wait for it to gather it provides time for hunters to act. In general the game is being saturated by too much pure isk flowing into the game, about a 10% increase this year alone. Commodities have a chance to be destroyed or stolen before becoming isk, bounties do not.

Yes, incursions are happening all the time. However, a fleet of players must move from incursion to incursion. Does a null sec ratter have to move 10+ jumps to continue ratting? Does the support fleet need to stay with the ratter contributing to the fight? Those are noteworthy differences.

As you pointed out, this sort of change would effect your end payout. You have the means to deliver the goods. A corp with lesser means it may effect more, hence the change’s effect correlates to how well a corp can move the commodies. Low sec is enhanced by null sec locations needing to move additional goods through the area.

Just to be clear, your answer is because a large group has the ability to rat safely within a sovern location because it has massive quanities of protection on standby if needed? It simply has more supers to carry out said tasks and more fleet for protection?

40

So youre saying that everything that increased should be nerfed by CCP, and then when it decreases, what should CCP do then?

If theyre being camped? Yes. For the support fleet to actually support and be of use? Yes.

And this is of course, ignoring the fact that, again, when a neutral or enemy ship jumps into system, you have to dock up.

So, try again. Why are these noteworthy differences?

No, i pointed out that it wouldnt.

This is ridiculous. The more you post, the more ridiculous you look, because now youre just contradicting yourself.

Before, you said, and i quote:

Now you say:

Youve directly contradicted yourself.

The effect isnt equal, and larger entities will not have more to lose.

This is why your idea is bad. And now that youve realized it, youve switched arguments.

Thats not the only reason in my answer, but yes.