Boy, you really lack reading comprehension today.
They weren’t complaining and saying it was unfair.
They were pointing out a list of nerfs to the person further up who said ‘Incursions have never been nerfed and keep making more isk’ and tried quoting a three year old file before all the nerfs as ‘proof’
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Mind boggling…
It is time to nerf this thread.
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it’s a cam thread, in the end, only meant to cause anger among people.
200/h +40k lp was pretty dank
Did it one night where I had 1.5 hour to burn
Made 300m and 60k lp with TVP 
Pretty much more broken than any other activity in HS despite the relatively low risk
I mean, you have more chances to get dunked doing level 4s in any big hub than in any incursion ever
And while this may be considered a nice income, it only tells a part of the story. You have:
- form-up time,
- time and some additional risk to move your stuff between incursions (probably more risk than in the actual incursion area),
- some form of commitment to stay in fleet for a while,
- (in theory) there can be other contestents in sites,
- you have to listen to incursion FCs (for some people, that is the worst part),
- are depending on (possibly random) logistic pilots (and their internet connections),
- and getting Isk for your LP takes additional effort.
Let’s compare this to efficiently flying lvl 4 missions:
- no form-up.
- no moving,
- commitment only extends for one mission at a time (which can always be finished later),
- no other people involved,
- infinite missions (at least until all agents are giving ■■■■)
- and getting Isk for LP is the same.
But once you are set for all Burner missions, are capable of blitzing, have a choice of agents available and the ships ready, the income is in the same region. Just takes some time to reach that state.
Null-sec ratting:
- no preparation needed,
- can start and stop at will,
- Isk without addional effort directly on wallet,
- infinite anos,
- payout varies, but with a carrier it’s not much less (and a carrier isn’t necessarily much more expensive than a blingy incursion BS).
FW-missions:
- a typical run of 10 - 14 missions takes ~3 hours and missions are only valid for 24h (single missions are not wporth it due to travel overhead),
- low SP and ISK investment (can be still done in a bomber),
- high risk through other players and NPCs (yes, you will lose ships),
- income is in the same range as for the other activities,
- but mostly in LP of the less valuable kind and due to rather large amounts, it takes much more effort to transform them into Isk.
All of these four ways of income are broken in some regard, but I don’t think incursions are the most broken ones.
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Form-up and all other delays are included
I was on for a 1h30 session, made 300m then I had to leave. Doesn’t get much clearer than this lol
I can confirm from a friend in this game, who unironically told me that he made 800 million ISK in two hours of doing incursions. That’s been a few years ago, no idea how it is today.
It seems to be time again, to remind you that the only reason why this thread exists in the first place, with you arguing about things, is because Cam wanted you to.
Lucky you.
Considerably less. At least per account per hour on average, considering potential extra effort and delays. Numbers like this are often based on bad math or intentionally misleading.
I could tell you, I made over 700m per hour last time I did C5 sites, a few weeks ago. But again, this is only part of the story, leaving out some crucial points, like:
- the time needed for scanning and closing holes and making bookmarks,
- we were two people with nine characters in total (we both made 700m+ per hour),
- the corp mate that went in to check a new signature, twice (and didn’t get paid anything),
- and the little fact we didn’t even make Isk, we made loot that had to be brought to high-sec first.
Was still good Isk, though.
Actually, I write in this thread because I want to (procrastinate work) and there aren’t any other intersting threads going on right now. The OP is just an unfurtonate circumstance. 
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Do you argue with every person that has a different experience or point of view than you?
Kinda useless when what’s said are facts and not opinions 
Cut Cow some slack. it is really hard taking the numbers seriously, because most people can’t count the minutes of an hour.
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I don’t doubt your numbers. They sound reasonable.
I just doubt that everyone who wants to do incursions (or even you) will be able to constantly keep those numbers up if all things necessary to participate in fleet are taken into account.
We could now begin to argue if you had the incursion ship ready anyway and if you had to travel some jumps, which might be relevant in your case, because you were talking about a single night. Ten or twenty minutes more would bring the Isk per hour down by quite a bit. Or we could could just take your numbers as possible outcome and keep in mind that they may differ to some extend for other people.
Besides that, a few millions more or less per hour doesn’t change much and this wasn’t really my point, anyway. My point was rather, that there is more to incursions than just pressing F1 for some hours and being instantly “rich” and there are other activities with similar income possibilities (of which one is also in high-sec and another much more convenient and the third - my favourite by the way - somehow shit compared to the others).
If the OP was right (Isk-faucet, risk free), everybody would do incursions. Somehow this isn’t the case (and wouldn’t work either) and there are reasons for that. Those reasons may be part of what balances the income if it ican be really considered (too) high. Or, alternatively, the income isn’t too high and everyone making less is doing something wrong (or isn’t doing it for the money alone).
Somehow.
Indeed.
You give me an idea. 
We could end incursions by making a thing out of them.
including skilltree, time it takes, LP, isk per hour. we actively promote the lowest bar possible, and show how it’s done.
Could! We won’t, of course! And I’m not logging in, because my effort is brainwork. 
I’m also not in the doing mood. I’m still logging in, though (#glorified_chat_client).
But hey, how doable are incursions? what’s the lowest bar and how many people would it need?
Agreed, one of the limiting factor for incursion appears to be the fleet. You have to have a fleet, while this requirement is not present with mission nor anomaly ratting. That kind of set up cost is non-trivial, IMO.
You also need incursions themselves. You can’t run an incursion when there is no incursion.
The case for nerfing incursion income from a macro stand point is weak at best. Far, far more ISK enters the game from NS anomaly ratting, probably for the reasons that CowQueen notes. You can log in, and just start doing them. You don’t need a fleet, you don’t need to travel to where the incursion is…assuming there is one.
And I’m not even sure we need more ISK sinks. People keep saying this, but the case for it is again weak. In looking at the various statistics released each month inflation in the price indices is minimal or weak…and these are price indices known to have an upwards bias.
Facts and logic are such stubborn things. CCP is not going to nerf incursions…there is just no argument here.
Well past time to either lock this thread or let it sink and die.
More than an anomaly or mission. Keep in mind t he current culture is that anomalies and missions are done solo. Doing them as a team is the exception and not the norm, by a long shot.
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so… what’s the lowest bar, skill- and ship-wise, and how many people would it need?
The lowest suggested damage ship I can find is a tech 2 fitted Rokh or Maelstrom (probably any turret BS would work fine and missiles BS too, just less efficiently). You could probably use tech 1 guns as well - lvl 4 skills seem to be sufficient.
For logistics, a tech 2 ship is recommended with logistics 5 and tech 2 fitting. Not sure if you could get away with less (without throwing more money at it).
Old Forum Incursion Threadnought
If you build a whole low entry fleet, you might be able to do do the sites (don’t know how much longer it will take, but even a steady 80m per hour would probably be ok for many). The main problem may be that your chances in contested sites are almost non-existant (which might make it more likely that people will contest your sites).
As an individual you have to depend on some FC letting your “inferior” ship into fleet. A problem that is probably more present in some time zones than others - assuming that FCs are selecting their fleet members in a way that maximizes potential efficiency.
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What does this mean? Contested?
When a second fleet comes into your site, only the one with higher damage (at least I think this is the deciding factor) gets paid.
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