Jin'taan Video: How Could CCP Regain The Community's Trust in 2020?

Whilst some changes I didn’t mind so much like the blackout for instance I thought was a good step, it may have been too much at once but certainly a good step. But for me CCP are doing things to push monetization than they are look at certain aspects of the game.

The skins, as mentioned before, they come out thick and fast. Hypernet, skill injection/extraction. whilst all this can be done with ISK it also pulls at the purse strings and yet something like the botched market window update where you cannot even sort your orders by region anymore goes untouched.

Hidden changes not put in the patch notes, well no excuse for that.

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Also, it’s funny to see how incredibly easy it seems to be to troll the average EVE-O Forum goer

It’s a hobby :slight_smile: White knights are so fun and easy…actually, this is my therapy!

Keep-up the great work BTW…

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I think the points you made in the video were spot on. I also think that the official forum itself would be an interesting topic for discussion.

You can see from the nonsense replies that the priorities of at least the vocal minority are changing along with the community itself.

Honestly, I liked the cadence of the conversation a few years ago compared to the childish banter represented by some of the replies to this thread.

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You’ll get an honest opinion here, unlike Reddit where you’ll get yes men jerking you off, and anyone who dares to stray away from your crotch gets muted, blocked, and/or banned in short order.

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I only want that they again put a lot of new content each year like it was in times when we get 2 really big updates per year.
I want to put a lot of into eve but changing numbers in database isn't motivating for it, i need to see that they're constantly working on something big and bringing it to the game 2x per year not every 2 years... Also still i believe that integrating avatar gameplay into eve would bring them the most they can probably get, not to try and fail with everything else.

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ffs Scootsy

It’s not CCP anymore.

It’s PA.

Read what you will, CCP’s gone, left ship, got their money’s worth.

It’s only a milk-cow soon turning into dusty carcass.

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@Jin_taan one of the thi gs you mentioned was the no patch notes for changes and you said that players have been conditioned over several years to know how things work. Perhaps thats part of the problem with almost anything outside of PvP being 100% predictable.

As much as CODE probably deserves another thread, I’m going to go back to the OP. Another decent video from the Jin-ster, which list real failures and gives reasonable ideas for CCP to get back on track in 2020. Realistically, the dysfunction/lack of direction at CCP will not change, and this year will be another series of missteps, with the odd success popping up, and we will continue our slide into inertia, but one can always hope for a change in direction.

While I probably side on the fence of Eve-is-better-off-without-the-old-format-AT, the way CCP has treated tournament organizers and aficionados is deplorable. I’m sure CCP still has a revamp 2020 AT on a whiteboard somewhere which is why they are loathe to declare it dead, but I am very pessimistic they will ever get to it. Like always, other stuff will keep it off the table and they will remain silent, 'til I guess shortly before Fanfest when they will have to announce it not coming again this year and hope the good news at Fanfest drowns out the complaints. Unless they really have started real work on it, in which case we’ll hear about it in the next weeks. But probably not.

The rest, well, there is a serious lack of direction at CCP. Turning dials and looking at metrics may help figure out some game design issues, but a fun game it does not automatically make. Nor does adding more monetization. I mean, maybe more avenues of revenue are needed, but a game developer shouldn’t be surprised when people keep leaving when they keep squeezing harder without adding more real content or gameplay.

What is needed is someone to articulate a vision that is fun and awesome and show some progress towards that, not articulate a cool, but vague vision, but then do nothing but add more monetization, tweak/nerf/remove/replace existing game systems, and spend 80%+ of their time on an NPE that existing players don’t see.

New players aren’t going to save Eve. Or at least, tweaking the NPE to retain a few percentage more players a few weeks longer isn’t going to revitalize the game. Yes, the NPE looses a terribly high fraction of players early on, but it is the serious, well-known structural problems related to the economy, accessible content and the power gap between incumbents and new entrants that remain unaddressed that keep the game from growing again. Like, what does a new player fresh out of the NPE actually do in modern Eve? And year after year those issues remain, or even get worse.

I don’t think it is easy, or maybe even possible to keep a game like Eve going for decades so the development team has my sympathy. But as Jin’taan neatly laid out, there were so many mis-steps last year it’s frustrating to watch CCP squander so much goodwill. So many people want Eve to succeed, yet CCP appears from the outside to be almost grasping at straws. Clear and consistent communication explaining why things are happening, what they learned, and where they are going would go so far to keeping most of the players happy, or at least on-board, yet consistently CCP fails to project or communicate that they have a vision and know what they are doing or where the game is going.

Is the game in 2020 better than the past? Certainly aspects of it are, including PvE and the NPE, but player activity metrics and general sentiment would say no, the game as a whole is not better. It isn’t more active, and it isn’t more fun. CCP has neglected the core gameplay of Eve for years, focusing on first re-engineering flawed systems, and then chasing the PvE masses that never came. It’s time to get back to basics and not only focus on the core gameplay, but spend some effort to convince the general player base that fostering a competitive PvP sandbox game is once again, CCP’s top priority.

I’m at heart an optimist, so I have high hopes that the ‘Fight or Flight’ Quadrant will mark the start of a renaissance of PvP sandbox gameplay, and that CCP takes the message of this video to heart so Jin’s summary video of 2020 has a much different tone than this one. But the pragmatist in me wouldn’t bet on it.

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^^ What he said. ^^

Gambling killed it for me. Not logged in this year. Just really burnt out with the game. And this was the nail in the coffin.

Hearing about past year for CCP and us…

But CCP did not improve on this guys point, the T2BPO’s remained in the game alongside the pets.

I would love a feature on the forums that removes all posts in a thread (like this one) that are off topic.
I would also love a feature on the forums that penalizes all posters each time they make an off topic comment in a thread.

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Ironic…

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Speaking on the subject of CCP and having the user’s trust, one of the things that did help me maintain a level of trust was specifically @CCP_Lebowski engaging with and sharing the rationale behind changes. He generally comes around each patch cycle to address our concerns and acknowledge bugs.

Briefly, we see not only words, but action as well as CCP Lebowski tries to strike a compromise with small UI tweaks.

@CCP_Convict logging in to exchange melted snowballs also serves to promote some level of trust. While melting them did cost CCP a significant amount of trust from some users, having a developer on the payroll spend some time to mitigate the situation to an extent also mitigates the loss of trust involved. CCP did not have to care at all, and us snowball lovers are probably a fairly small minority.

These forums can be pretty harsh on developers, so maybe it’s important that I try to let them know I appreciate what they do for us. I do not agree with their every decision, and I don’t think it is possible for different people to reach that level of agreement, but I am glad that they explain their position and do their best to compromise with mine when they are able.

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There is enough memes on the internet to think people are not overreacting.

I have worked in the service industry for a long time, about a quarter of a century to put a finer point on my qualifications. During my tenure, I’ve learned of an unfortunate propensity of some customers, particularly those with loud voices.

Let’s say I notice that a customer has a problem, but the customer has not yet noticed me. I have an option. I can either actively try to engage the customer to address this problem, or I can avoid this customer and the problem.

If I choose to try to address the problem, I am bound by a set of rules that governs what I can and can’t do to solve it, assuming I want to remain employed. If I am unable to, because of these rules, solve the problem two things can happen:

  1. The customer becomes more angry and dissatisfied.
  2. The customer associates me, personally, with the problem.

This results in the customer taking out that dissatisfaction, which I can do nothing about, out on me, or trying to make my life more difficult for the duration it is on their mind. It is why people call to get me fired and it doesn’t happen. Because I am following instructions and people lose their job for failure to follow those instructions. This is stressful and unpleasant, and why I have to size up whether I want to try to help someone or not.

This is what I mean by the forum being harsh, and could account for why it gets so little attention. Developers who want to help may get more positive results from their attention if they direct it elsewhere. That, however, is my idle speculation. My point is that, here, a developer descending into this den likely has the same problem I do, one I have to deal with almost daily when an attempt to help someone backfires. Compromise often isn’t good enough, but that’s all you have to give while the customer only has crap to give you in return when they don’t get what they want.

I’m not saying people can’t or shouldn’t offer criticism or that what CCP does is always right. A frank exchange of ideas and opinions is necessary to reach the most optimal of implementations and CCP certainly has made mistakes. What I am saying is that we shouldn’t put a problem on the shoulders of the person who tries to help us with it because it probably isn’t their fault.

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Ayyyye Eve is dying…

I dont think devs are even able to solve problems, because their arms are tied by existing job that was coming to them from management which was always a source of problems themselves. That is why Pssssshhhh memes in its time. Because of this:

One manager couldn’t answer questions on gameplay or focus. I remember him standing over the shoulder of a programmer putting his finger to his lips and saying 'No - make it more… psssshhhh

http://img.beyondreality.se/PsssshhhhBall.jpg
http://img.beyondreality.se/PsssshhhhBalloon.jpg
http://img.beyondreality.se/PsssshhhhBoat.jpg
http://img.beyondreality.se/PsssshhhhBubble.jpg
http://img.beyondreality.se/PsssshhhhCastle.jpg
http://img.beyondreality.se/PsssshhhhCeiling.jpg
http://img.beyondreality.se/PsssshhhhFrigate.jpg
http://img.beyondreality.se/PsssshhhhMascot.jpg
http://img.beyondreality.se/PsssshhhhProstate.jpg
http://img.beyondreality.se/PsssshhhhSouffle.jpg
http://img.beyondreality.se/PsssshhhhTrumpet.jpg

Also Hilmar famously overpricing items himself before summer of rage. That was fairly dumb too.

But if the management sees a problem, then its a bit easier to solve it. Like when Hilmar had to play PI for some time and then suddenly a small PI overhaul. :joy:

Every year people learn how CCP goes about business and no wonder then they look like this
image

Eve is dead ?