Jita Astronomical Observatory - Exploring New Eden - An EVE Online Astronomy Club

To-do list so far:

  1. Determine if Jita to New Caldari distance can be determined.
  2. Better map the starfield, check for consistencies and inconsistencies.
  3. Look for other cross-region consistencies other than Caroline’s Star. (Recently Proven)
  4. Continue to map Officially Named Constellations to the New Eden Sky as was done with Onirvura and Kimotoro.
  5. Is Kimotoro’s Star Square unique to The Forge or Kimotoro? Does it persist in Onirvura (also in the Forge)? Is it part of The Forge’s Skybox or is the Starfield separate from the Skybox?
  6. Does Kimotoro’s Divining Rod morph as the observer’s position changes throughout New Eden. Is this constellation unique to The Forge?
  7. Are some stars on the starfield independent, or are all stars independent of the skybox that includes region specific Nebulae and dust clouds, etc.?

INTRODUCTION:
I hope this thread sparks a new type of player generated content and exploration for those so interested in something such as this.

Different from a group of players buying telescopes and talking about actual astronomy, ever since I saw THIS (Fig 1.1)


Fig 1.1

I’ve always wondered how accurate the star-fields are between the map and the actual skies of New Eden.

So I invite anyone interested in this aspect of “Astronomy” to participate.

ANALYSIS
The method I have chosen, and seems to be consistent with observations, is to fly to 0km to the star, and I test a north and south view (up 90deg and down 90deg).

I align the star so that the line to the star is pointing up for North, or pointing straight down for South.

This produces starfields like Figures 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4.


Figure 1.2 - Kimotoro’s Divining Rod


Figure 1.3 - Kimotoro’s Divining Rod


Figure 1.4 - Kimotoro’s Divining Rod

This is possibly the first actually to-be-named constellation in EVE! Sure star systems are grouped “into” constellations such as Kimotoro, but IS THAT Constellation or any map-named-constellations visible in the night-sky? Yet to be proven.

However, I named this northern constellation seen from Jita “Divining Rod” because it looks a little bit like such an object.

A mystery occurs though. Originally I assumed the entire sky would be similar from ALL locations, but it is certainly NOT true from another constellation, see Figure 1.5.


Figure 1.5 - Josameto’s Northern Sky

This observation proved that at least from star systems in different constellations the sky would be different. But the plot thickened. Figure 1.6 is a star system in the Kimotoro constellation.


Figure 1.6 - Niyabainen’s Northern Sky

Unexpectedly, Niyabainen’s Northern Sky is different than New Caldari’s, Perimeter’s and Jita’s, even though Niyabainen is also part of the Kimotoro constellation group of star systems.

But, the intrigue doesn’t end with simply a different Northern Sky between Niyabainen and the others of Kimotoro.

They actually share another star feature I call The Kimotoro Star Square: Fig 1.7, Fig 1.8, Fig 1.9.


Figure 1.7 - Niyabainen’s Kimotoro Star Square


Figure 1.8 - New Caldari’s Kimotoro Star Square


Figure 1.9 - Jita’s Kimotoro Star Square

So here is the evidences so far, that star fields certainly have some commonalities between star systems, and some differences, that the differences seem to exist between Constellation-Groups of star systems, but that even within those groups there are still some differences. But certainly within those groups of star systems there are similarities.

The inaugural questions for the Jita Astronomical Observatory then are these:

  • Is there a logic behind the similarities and differences in the star fields and other astronomical objects in the night sky of New Eden?
  • Are they geographically contiguous or rather random?
  • Ultimately, does the star fields align with the stars in the New Eden Map, visible in the set-destination view? Are the stars accurately placed in coordination with the New Eden Map?

QUESTIONS ALREADY ANSWERED

  1. New Eden’s map does not accurately display distance.
  2. Jump Drive distances are not accurate even though listed in light years. So-far explained away as a feature of warped spacetime. The listed lightyears is in warped spacetime and somehow mapped to actual distances in general-relative spacetime.
  3. There is definitely a sense of parallax between star systems as proven when approximating the location of the Badminton Nebula. But is this parallax sufficient to determine distances between stars?
  4. The parallax does suggest the starfield is independent of the “skybox” (astronomical structures like nebulae). But, is the entire starfield independent, or are only the New Eden stars on the star map (that can be seen when setting a destination) independent?
  5. Astronomical Structures other than Caroline’s Star do straddle Regional boundaries.
  6. Solar System Ecliptic planes are artificially laid out into the same plane on the New Eden Map. Actual orientations are in fact different, so Jita North is different from Faulent North etc. Solar Systems seem to have similar ecliptic planes within the same constellations, but not always. Whether this means the starfields are always the same from system to system, and just oriented differently is yet to be proven…
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This post is reserved for additional commentary from OP.

The 3rd question in my OP, do the star fields coincide with the New Eden Map? Answer seems to be Yes:

Figures 2.1 and 2.2


Figure 2.1 - Onirvura seen from Jita perspective on Map


Figure 2.2 - *Constellation Onirvura seen in Jita Sky, confirmed by Set Destinations.

What is most perplexing is the apparent inaccuracy between the Constellation Onirvura in the sky and its apparent view within the New Eden Map.

  • Challenge, Identify the stars nearest to Obanen in Figure 2.2. Are they stars in the New Eden map? Or background stars?

I also think I possibly found a distorted “Divining Rod” constellation viewed from Josameto. Fig 2.3 and Fig 2.4


Figure 2.3 - Kimotoro’s Divining Rod Possibly seen from Josameto


Figure 2.4 - Kimotoro’s Divining Rod seen from New Caldari

New Caldari is much closer to The Forge Nebula than Jita.

This apparent truth may be felt by how prominent The Forge Nebula seems, but it can also be proven another way: Deltole.

Deltole, from Jita, is a little star close to the Badminton Nebula, so named because it looks like a Badminton. (Fig 3.1)


Figure 3.1 - Deltole From Jita

But, as you can see the parallax is quite significant when moved to New Caldari (Fig 3.2).


Figure 3.2 - Deltole From New Caldari

The obvious conclusion is New Caldari is closer to The Forge Nebula, but the more interesting conclusion is that we can likely pinpoint where on the New Eden Map The Forge Nebula should be.

There is a background skybox that doesn’t match the starmaps, but the nearby bright stars are accurate, and you will note the stargates point directly too them as well.
I’d love to see you place the nebulas onto the map though, that would be an interesting project.

Already did an attempt, my best reverse engineering of tracing that “Badminton Nebula” is that it behaves as we know, as a distant-background-skybox.

But it DOES behave consistently as a skybox within New Eden, if you imagine a skybox surrounding each region, I did roughly-pin-point the Badminton Nebula.

I say Roughly, because it behaves “funny” given that it is not actually a distant object in a 3-dimensional space, but rather a simulated-distant object on a boundary without a known fixed place in the 3-dimensional New Eden map.

TL;DR…basically we CAN approximate the positions of the Nebula within their regions, but the triangulation doesn’t add-up across all New Eden…at least not perfectly.

Badminton Nebula’s Approximate Location (Fig. 4.1)


Figure 4.1 - Badminton Nebula’s Approximate Location on New Eden Map

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I want to comment a moment on what I mean by “behaves as a background skybox”.

Normally if there’s an object in 3-dimensional space, the parallax works a certain way, in this case the distant object, Deltole should be drifting (Parallax-ing) to the left. But in a background-skybox we would expect to see the distant object, Deltole, drift to the right.

We DO INFACT see this rightward drift as we traverse toward the edge of The Forge region’s boundary.

So Deltole is in fact drifting along a background skybox, and this was never in question, but it makes for a more difficult approximation of where exactly an object on said background skybox is within the 3-dimensional New Eden Map.

Basically we have to assume that the distances between each region are much more vast…and then you can explain the position of, in this case the Badminton Nebula, more accurately, as the disappearance of it in The Citadel region is easily explained if the Citadel were much further away than what is shown on the New Eden Map.

The problem with this assumption is that we know it isn’t, because jump drives.

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Alternatively, and I do like this explanation a bit better, the object’s apparent size is much too big for how big it would actually be on the New Eden Map. What I circled is approximately the size of the Badminton Nebula based on its behavior, but we know this not to be true…therefore we can approximate it to be much smaller and still within that region of space, and then it would behave the same as a distant-background-skybox. And it would not behave so much like a closer object would.

Now I have an argument for distance based on The Forge Nebula. It looks like the Pillars of Creation in the Eagle Nebula, meaning the Pillars are approximately 5 light years, and the nebula is however big relational to that, the argument being that similar structures behave similarly, and I call upon the Law of Universality for that line of reasoning.

So because the structure is similar, I argue it’s similar in size, too.


Figure 5.1 - Distance in The Forge Nebula?

I kinda just want to write off Jump Drive “light years” as a warped space-time concept…because basically the Badminton Nebula Behaves as it should within The Forge Region.

When you leave to The Citadel via Kusomonmon…I think it disappears. At least I couldn’t find it at a glance.

Although with more distance that could easily be explained.

The game-reason is different skyboxes for different regions…

And another explanation is simply interstellar dust…totaly plausible, The Forge Region is largely obscured behind interstellar dust. It’s now distant enough away in Kusomonmon that you just don’t see all the structures familiar to The Forge’s skies…

  • Next project for later is to determine if there are similar structures between regions. Same Nebulas, similar constellations, etc.

  • It is important to note that if Josameto’s Divining Rod Constellation is in fact the same star group just mashed together as their relative positions changed…then there’s a lot of interesting changes going on within the Skyboxes themselves.

  • What are the changes going on between the skyboxes/regions?

Good news, sorry for so many replies (I like to write a lot haha).

Let’s just write off light years as representative of mass consumed in a warped space-time, because New Eden’s “light years” as calculated by jump drives are entirely unrealistic.

Mara to Dantumi is only “0.838 light years” in distance and they are NOT binary star systems based on their planetary orbits. (See Figure 6.1)

MOST Binary star systems that we know about are stars over 1 light year apart, and it has significant affects on unstable planetary orbits. So just by the evidence of the orbits of Mara and Dantumi, they cannot be 0.838 light years apart.

Therefore, Jump Drives is describing some kind of complex relationship between mass, energy, and faster than light travel through a warped spacetime.

Writing that off, we basically are free to approximate the locations of Nebula, and other Astronomical structures, determine actual distances between stars…and disregard whatever the game “says” the distances to be as just representative of complex formulae for calculating fuel and nothing to do with the observable New Eden.


Figure 6.1

If you’re interested in more of these, contribute and participate in the Jita Observatory here: Jita Astronomical Observatory - Exploring New Eden - An EVE Online Astronomy Club

Hey. I’ve been watching the ISD lock your thread.
You really can’t make a new thread about this.

You can always update the initial post here.
As far as I can tell there’s no character limit.

There is no obvious downside to this.
Worst case remove old content before you add new one.

You can also move your thread through subforums, increasing exposure massively.

Also, for the sake of image quality, lower your brightness via the in-game slider
All your pictures have a grey fog in them, which is completely unnecessary.
The difference is quite dramatic. Mine’s at around 20%.

Thanks!

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While I appreciate the warning, the problem with Barstolode is that THIS topic is far bigger than continually editing an original post or throwing random discoveries into a thread a mile long…

The idea is to make this a community, player-content creative thing.

Barstolode is just stifling it to something that wouldn’t be workable.

I think there’s enough interest that this could be its own sub-forum, honestly, where people can do this whole thing I’m doing, provide their own contributions, solve communal problems (such as actual distances between star systems with the given information in New Eden).

Stuff that can’t be done on ONE THREAD.

Barstolode is a good example of everything wrong with CCP.

Zero vision, crap content. EVE Online hasn’t had good, new, CCP-created content in a decade. And you know it’s true…everyone knows that’s true.

Barstolode would just have EVE Forums be reduced to what it’s been for 15 years…people bitching about not making enough isk to Plex…and people bitching about Bots.

That’s 90% of all threads on here.

Actually this was due to proximity to the Jita Star. I was there because I was seeing if clues to How Far Away is New Caldari? could be found in the AUs of the star system.

All I discovered was more evidence that the New Eden Map is inaccurate to actual scale.

For instance, Jita’s Star System is about as big as Earth’s Sol. ~42 AUs to the edge planet, while Sol’s Pluto is 39.5AUs. It would take 1500+ Jita Star Systems to equal 1 light year.

The map definitely doesn’t sustain this.

I understand that you’re talking it personally …
… but he’s just working with the rules he has.

Instead of doing the least intelligent thing about the situation,
you should ask for a solution to your problem instead.

That’s literally the smartest thing you can do.

Yesterday, for example, ISD Buldath actively helped me solving my problems with my posts.
You can also write an e-mail to the community team.

What you can’t do is whine about him, who isn’t actually at fault.
You have to go ask for permission and or a solution, before you complain.

He quoted the rules on the other thread, go ahead and see if creating a thread about a discovery matches any of those rules. Be honest.

We know what it is…he just thinks this is spam. Because it’s me posting on a SIMILAR topic.

But there’s 1,000+ topics on the same ■■■■ about Bots mining all the minerals and gankers killing newbs…

Time for some DIFFERENT repetitive ■■■■, in my opinion.

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No. Look.

Grey fog. This isn’t near jita at all.
Turn it down to improve visual quality.

If you refuse to accept help, mate …
… and rather cry because your ego got hurt …
… then there’s nothing anyone can do and you will just suffer.

I’m not here to argue, I’m telling you what to do.

When you’re too full of yourself to listen to good advise …
… and instead need to act like a child that got told his favourite toy is crap …
… then feel free to just ■■■■ off and I’m simply blocking this thread.

Have a nice day.

Can’t argue with that.

Okay, there are few here that will. But you know what I mean.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

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But this is less fog right? This is further from star.

I like this sort of content. It’s actually pretty cool. You just don’t need multiple threads about it when an additional post in this thread would work better, where each new post will keep it towards the top of the threads, as opposed to making a new thread for each one and then watching as it falls through the other threads and gets locked after 3 months of no one posting in it. Please don’t confuse my enforcing rules as me being petty. It’s not.

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