July Release - Strategic Cruisers

Yeah and that’s a problem, video games companies have too much freedom for things like this. But thanks to our governements, we start to see more laws about players protection in virtual environment

LoL, you ever get the right to demand a refund because a game company changed something for balance and you just killed all MMO’s, MPORGS, and probably all FPS ever doing business with your country.

Well, just look at cyberbullying laws, or gambling in videogames. It’s starting slowly but it will happens

Those are totally different situations to a balance change.

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You’re right for cyberbullying and so on, but for game mechanics you can’t really measure with the same stick. These things need to be fluid to keep the game evolving and interesting. Sometimes people don’t like these changes, sometimes people do. In most cases it has to do with wether they feel it favors them over others or not.

That being said, the only thing that might come up and that probably exists in most countries is scamming being illegal. For a game to be a scam though, you’d need to prove that a product was sold with the purpose of not being delivered or being delivered in a completely different state. Using big words in advertisement and promising abstract things like “good experience”, “nice community” and such, is not scamming and it shouldn’t be considered as such - unless we’re speaking about extreme cases. CCP doesn’t sell you anything but PLEX, Skill Extractors and Game Time for real life money - and they do deliver these things promptly. Show me the part in the ToS or even the advertisements where CCP promises anything staying like it is. You won’t find it.

And please be fair: in many cases CCP goes a long way to hear the opinion of players before any actual change. Will the result always make everyone happy? Of course not. How could it be any different.

You are unhappy with the changes to the point that you don’t want to play the game? Go play chess instead. Last I heard they didn’t change the basic rules for a century or so.

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Back on topic …

… well I’m playing around with fits for cloaky solo a bit the last week, and I had a hard time coming up with something working for the three T3Cs I can fly (Proteus, Tengu, Loki). Finally I decided to give the Loki a try, it was the only one I could find a half-decent fit. Though the performance advantage over a much cheaper Stratios is not that big. Especially the high align time and low speed make it a brick in space and a pain to roam around (even without nulli sub).

There is something odd, while the missile fit works, the corresponding autocannon fit does not, even 220 Vulcans will not fit, the ship is too low on CPU with the projectile subsystem. Was this an oversight?

Also I don’t like that essential capabilities you want to choose separately are now tight to specialized subsystems, probing is tied to covert ops, warp speed to being nullified, webs are tied to “no cap/tank” Too much compromises IMO.

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Frist, off I am a Newbro to PVP but this has been a frustrating process to participate in. Before this change hunting in bombers bar was hard. It took lots of skill and hard work and luck to catch anything now it seems almost impossible.

We have given this change some time to set in and I can say that at least for the niche group of black ops hunters there has been lots of disappointment.

I have two questions.

What would be the problem with eliminating turrets if you equip nullification and covert

Next, if this is not an option what are we supposed to hunt in. There has been some limited success in teaming covert cyno ships with interdictors but most of the time these ships are disposable which makes for short fleets. (Gate Camps, or Alphed off the Grid)

I tried to have an open-mind about this change, but I am upset that I finally found something I really love doing in the game and now its really not as much fun.

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Well that the intended point of the change to get away from the old design where next to no compromise were made to get capacity X. Did it swing too hard? Maybe but you can’t go back to what it was before.

I have to say that the new Loki is pretty sweet. Doesn’t have 200k+ ehp like my old one, but I can now dual-rep and be cap stable. Even the cloaky can be setup with a fairly quick locking fit with rigs and subsystem.

Now just waiting for the tiericide completion…

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Thank you CCP for making the game less fun…

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Because of what?
Because you couldn’t find a way to kill a T3C or what?

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Yeah i would rather to quit the game which is not enjoying me anymore rather than adapt every 2-3 months cause CCP make changes for whining idiots.

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Got same problem mate… got same problem.
My covert subs convert to some useless one with no idea why ffs :slight_smile:

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Because they objectively and demonstrably provided a combination of speed, tank, DPS, and utility that was absolutely unmatched on any other ship in the game at a price point that was only slightly more expensive than a faction Battleship (at the time these nerfs went through, now they’re actually cheaper).

So… you’re going to stop playing MMOs in general then? Every MMO I’ve ever played has patches and those patches tend to nerf imbalanced stuff so… yeah. Good luck with that one.

Also you can still run 10/10s in a T3C, you just need the right fit for it.

There’s a spreadsheet showing what would convert to what that was posted at least half a dozen times in this thread by CCP devs and others…

Well I have a new report on the Tengu. It’s gone from worrisome to good to great -back to worrisome. Here’s why:
The ship was unflyable when skills were entry level. This more predominant with the T3C’s than any other bonus structure, most likely due to the exponential compounding of gains with so many from core, Caldari SC group, subsystems, then other more general skill sets such as HAM, shield, and various other performance enhancing skills.
I, along with some old players (circa 2003 being ancient sentient beings in this game), have developed a series of fits. These fits are semi-bling, in that the price ranges from 1.5B to 3B ISK, and uses factional and storyline components to achieve results. While I wont post these fits here, One can be seen in the ship lost while letting myself be ganked in FW space, when a Russian Blop landed on us and slowly chiseled the ship down. After the fight, I went on to tweak various flavors of the fit, and brought all of this characters skills (Rumi Shanti) related to the Tengu up to level V. The results were staggering, and a little too staggering. While being able to escape/evade literally anyone while doing exploration, and then playing in sleeper space in wormholes, I a bit of fear began to creep in, as i now worry that a rebalance may occur again to de-power these ships at higher skill levels. I am hoping, that these meta-breaking abilities (which can be countered easily by having 2 or more Bhaalgorns neuting), that allow exploration or ratting wh space with almost zero chance of loss, are already countered by the risk of skill loss. e.g if, on a rare occasion, you fall sleep at the wheel, for example (this happened to me last night and I woke to find that rats couldn’t even touch my tank at a fully stocked sansha post). Even asleep active repping if a fleet ganked me on chance, nothing would happen and they would get bored and go home -unless they had a way to heavily neut me. 1775 HP per 3.5-4 sec rep rate, and resists at L5 are all %72 and higher with 44% cap to spare, you quickly see trouble coming down the road as people start complaining about the Tengu yet again. I can get 400DPS unheated now with that tank, and fit a warp core stab, a a/b… CCP, I have decided I don’t like the nerf game. I honestly think it’s time to stop (not because I think I have found an ultimate alpha ship that secures me til kingdom come, but because I think you should let the game be now, and simply let the players find ways on their own -to counter such things as a tengu. Large corps and Alliances will form large multi-Bhaag assisted DPS/neut armies shun the’s T3C’s deep into shattered WH space -the only real place they belong. This stuff will happen on its own, i am sure. The game is balanced enough I am convinced. All of this nerf crying and speculation, and implementation drastically diminishes my person experience in EVE -it is simply NOT a sandbox anymore, instead it is a politician -bending to whatever group cries the loudest. CCP, you guys have done an incredible job. You have invented a universe. Hopefully, that doesn’t go to your heads in allowing you to think like gods, but instead understand that you are little pieces of such, contributing to something very large, very profound. Something that connects all of us in another way -reinforcing our Oneness that is reflected in our true nature here. But you have spoiled your children rotten! There is just no other way to say it, SPOILED. When I got reprimanded for something in-game, and had to have a time out, no matter how hard I screamed injustice, the people making the decision held their ground -and I was persuasive! I pushed back hard. I was glad that ground was held though, regardless of my guilt or innocence. Why? Because it showed me absolute integrity and consistency. It made me gain a very healthy respect for the staff and thus other players also. It actually lead me to look up to you and admire, and then actually as a model in my own parenting! But I have ruined 3 wives now, just moving past number 3 and only 40 y.o. The reason why? spoilage. I spoiled each of them (I think) subconsciously to secure my status. Each time it backfired horribly right in my face. Not only did it make these women hate me (lol), it ruined them and made them not nice people (I sure hope none of them are reading this (not lol btw)). CCP, your children are getting spoiled and they will not thank you for it. Keep things as is (If I loose a Tengu I am shamed, and also broke because it costs me money to skill up if I want to fly it again). Let us fight it out among ourselves and take that stoic approach that you take in your disciplinary actions. We might scream and kick and call you bad names at first, but we will thank you for it in the end. So… should I be preparing for another T3C nerf??? If it’s gunna get it, I’ll train now for the Rook and the Widow. Thanks in advance for your reply. In the Oneness, Rumi

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So your stance is : “It’s kind of a WTFPWNmobile but let it like that because you are a spoiled children who can’t accept to get it’s stuff removed”.

At least you are upfront about it.

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Absolutely…you nailed it :wink: hehe can’t deny

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Ran and completed a Sansha Haven in nul today with the Tengu, active, single shield rep, slow (almost 1 hour at 400 Dps unheated without reloads, HAM fit. Took essentially no damage, ramming each target on approach as I laid on the missiles at point blank lol. My shield dipped to MAYBE 85% once or twice for about half a second. Not complaining about tank anymore thats for sure. Just a different approach to tanking. My Tengu skills and HAMs/ are maxed now. I’m really happy to be able to run these, because it means the ship can handle smaller sites while getting blopped. The key to these ships is just max all related skills for cap, power/cpu, shield, missiles, and of course the ship/subsystems. Once maxed you are pretty much only taken out if you get careless or too cocky.

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Yeah, solo or in small fleet you won’t be able to break T3C active tanks, if you don’t show massive neut power, requiring a special ship. Two T3C fighting would last until next downtime in standoff. I’m not requesting a nerf, but there should be configurations where one T3C can win against another T3C.

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There are, it’s called fit neuts in your spare highs, which are currently pretty ridiculously easy to get thanks to the new subsystems.

Though really, there have always been configurations of ships where you could go full tank and neither could kill the other. The Drake stands out as a pretty good one, for example, and the Rattlesnake can do something similar now with a completely passive shield fit.

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