Keep Ganking, Alter Profitability?

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
,
1

I’m 9/10 times on the shooting side of things, and whole heartily believe ganking, scamming, etc is to the core a part of the game and should exist until hilmar ganks the servers if/when that happens.

High Sec lore wise has been protected by concord magic, with retaliation only in mind leaving it for the most part one sided or lose-lose. Concord should keep evidence, no?

Programming the loot to be “hot” and carry a timer on whoever would be too much on the servers. Using current mechanics to avoid punishment and keep costs low and have a sector of the game as isk making at risk of losing players, should be a mechanic that exists but does not bode income. Let ganking be only for those who want to send a message, not multiboxers with dollar signs for eyes.

Concord should impound evidence, aka “loot”, Keeping the mechanic for those who want to gank. Its a fundamental part of eve. Only the dedicated would continue at risk of just farming salt and not farming for isk.

Other suggestions that came up with players and I ask you for same.

Lock it for 15 minutes? Wreck is still shoot-able? but that also leads to punishment.

NPC Concord Tractor beams it?

Anyone who touches (neutral alts to avoid punishment is the core in this) are also concorded until timer is up? Thus the loot is hot for 15 min. Does this require changing wrecks code?

How many players leave the game and economy from ganking, is there anyone that knows metrics to games growth vs shrink over the last decade or two from high sec ganking?

Let me know any flaws you see with this other than salt farming a niche gameplay mechanic. Just perspective on if sub 10k accounts and everything jita congregated due to goons forcing niarja signed the games DNR from a multiboxer and wormholers perspective.

2

The only change I think HS ganking loot needs is that the people looting / thieving should be engageable.

This means a suspect timer for those players.

Right now looters can avoid a suspect timer by placing a DST or Orca with a fleet hangar next to the wreck and using a second account to grab the loot in a cheap corvette to place it in the fleet hangar. The alt in the cheap ship then gets the suspect timer while the loot is safe in the Orca; the Orca pilot gets no suspect timer at all.

If you ask me this should be changed and a new rule should be added:

Suspect players can only access fleet hangars of pilots who are suspect themselves.

Did someone gank? Is there loot to be stolen? Sure, you can loot those items. But players can legally fight back and shoot the thieves now. The current situation where CONCORD is protecting the thieves is silly, don’t let fleet hangars be abused this way.

1 Like
3

Yes, mentioned the loot being hot, I think it might work from a play stand point. Not terribly certain from a coding perspective.

4

Unfortunately it also works if the expendable alt in a corvette pulls the loot into a jetcan they just created if it still works that way.

Meaning the loot is transferred into a suspect jetcan thus anyone can grab it. Not as guaranteed but still a non-suspect cargo ship can just scoop it up wholesale and not inherit the suspect timer nor create a new timer.

Thus as @Krops_Vont mentions “hot” loot is a better solution as it addressed both cases and any potential other ones if there is any.

:thinking:

5

This is a good point.

Then an addition to the reworded first rule:

  1. suspect players cannot put stuff in a non-yellow fleet hangar
  2. suspect players cannot put stuff in a non-yellow jetcan
    – the jetcans they make will be yellow by default

These limitations should keep loot ‘hot’ while it is stolen, and the one looting it legally engageable by bystanders.

1 Like
6

This would be ideal, not sure how that would pan out for coding and difficulty there. Only thing I could imagine is pre-aligned haulers server tick warping to safe/station.

7

That requires skill and luck to achieve and has counterplay in the form of bumping so don’t think that specifically needs to be included. :thinking:

8

Try not filling your freighter to capacity with expensive stuff, that will reduce the profitability you provide to gankers.

9

Or… we could help people learn how to avoid getting their ships exploded.

Make ships go faster and use proper Warp / Cloak techniques to make jump gating safer- or use scouting- or use proper tanking.

(in before people jump down my throat with things like:

We can instalock you if we have a tornado! You can’t cloak if you’re targetted!

No sub cap can reach 800,000 EHP! You’re clearly lying!

All it takes is 4 Marauders to take down that tank before Concord arrives!

And blah… blah… blah.)

Yes, we’ve heard it all before. Yet go to zkillboard and you’ll quickly see that only the stupid get ganked.

The reality is that gankers aren’t bad people. They really aren’t. They’re just there to pick on the weak to make players stronger. The bad ones are those that quickly come on the forums and shame players for discussing strategies for avoiding being explosionated. Why? Because it makes it harder to explosionate you.

Big shield tanks, being alert at your keyboard, being quick at the gate, etc… that’s how you stay alive.

Having a good MWD on a fast ship with a Warp Stabilizer II that can reach 4,100 m/s means that they have to do more than just bump you. They can’t stop you with a warp disrupter either (a warp disrupter doesn’t stop an MWD- only a warp scrambler does, but they will need to defeat that warp stabilizer +2). Once you clear the targets, they can’t stop you from cloaking and warping off into the sunset never to be seen again.

Having a strong tank that reaches over 750,000 EHP with good resistances means that they will need stronger ships to even stand a chance. If you manage to reach 1 million with 90%+ resistances, you’re unbeatable by most High Sec gate camps (the Orca can achieve this). I mean… yeah, 4 Marauders could still do it, but your job is to not wait for them to go home and grab their Marauders. Your job is to run away before they can make it back.

Being alert at your keyboard while mining is another great tactic. If you see gankers enter the system, run away. You can mine later. Or use a jump clone to go to another system where you already have a brand new mining ship all fit and standing by. Hop into it and mine there while the gankers take out the miners who were not as prepared as you were.

Or, if you’ve a friend who doesn’t mind waiting around while you mine, have him stand by in a Logistics cruiser. Once the gankers arrive, he can let loose and shroud you in a field of armor and shield repair that makes you absolutely untouchable. A well skilled Logistics pilot can make a mining barge completely invulnerable to all but the most powerful ganking squads. If you know what you’re doing, you can have a T2 Logistics ship fit to the brim with remote armor reps, deploy T2 shield rep drones, and be completely cap stable.

2 Likes
10

Yeah, that’s not ever going to happen.

Why get good when they can demand CCP remove all risk from the game?

1 Like
11

Some will never learn. Some will.

12

before suggesting all types of convoluted changes to address a non-problem, how about fixing the unintended ability of an eg. shuttle with 10m3 cargo hold, to shift 27,500m3 or more of cargo.

simple solution, sorry if it has a negative effect on YOUR play-style… you don’t seem to care about anyone else’s so fair play.

2 Likes
13

why? Shuttles are garbage. They have no fit and cost next to nothing.

14

I stuffed mine all the time, but I know how to fly. New players try that without the same experience and lose their ships.

Many an agonizing hr trying to decide on which one to fit! :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: (Thanks for that one)

How much can the servers handle only CCP can tell us.

1 Like
15

IMO, flying with safety on red should give you a suspect timer that only starts expiring once you set safety back to green.

16

“eg.” means i’m using shuttle as an example. i could use the free corvette that’s been mentioned in this thread, also.

ships should not be able to shift cargo that exceeds their own cargo bay.

hasn’t been mentioned, because many players use that mechanic, and don’t want to lose it. typical of those who would give away anything they don’t want, or use, to get what they do want. and don’t give a crap about the many other players their proposed changes affect.

1 Like
17

They’re just there to pick on the weak to make players stronger. The bad ones are those that quickly come on the forums and shame players for discussing strategies for avoiding being explosionated.

Love the concept, but then why did CCP have asset safety added? That makes the weak stronger.

Its the same boat imo. Gankers aren’t bad either. Would want it to be in the 30 year old trailer if anything. Just not as a means to keep 30 toons who only fly cats bombers n talos omega’d.

More alts is great for CCP’s wallet, more people spending on cenotaphs to gank bulkheaded max ehp freighters and tank like you mentioned even though the freighters are empty still don’t change the nature of Players who leave the game over the act from the concept its another form of ISK making activity. Its items produced, the only inherit ISK generated is from insurance iirc. Its the items that should be at risk, not cheated with another alpha toon on a 2nd computer saying its “their kids” and putting the mods into the omega dst as a scape goat for a player who isn’t flying 3+ toons to re-gank their items back from the dst.

18

CCP makes weird decisions it’s true. I’ll never pretend to understand their mindset. I don’t even fully understand asset safety because I’ve never really looked into it.

I’d write more, but one of my cats is gently tapping on my foot telling me it’s time for a break from the computer.

1 Like
19

Real life first :slight_smile: Its just a spaceship game. Hope the cat gets fed more than the gankers wallets.

I don’t think its convoluted since taking from a wreck makes you yellow, they can make it so you go red. They will do it with a 10m3 shuttle sure; the concept of a ship moving ether way more amounts of m3 through its cargo should take time or just not be possible yes, but then again our ships also shouldn’t bounce around like submarine bumper cars…

But I whole heatedly agree its at a heightened advantage to the knowledged to avoid ganking, even if both sides being knowledged on counter play still does not change the one sided profitability at play and prolific jitaification since goons intentional taking of niarja to triglavian that lead to a 10k player average drop within a year or two. Probably a lot of amarr residents or high sec in general if I took a betting guess.

IMO, flying with safety on red should give you a suspect timer that only starts expiring once you set safety back to green.

This is just a toggle switch still innately leaving it on their side and incentivized by profit. They will be ready to gank, they will be ready to loot, a player self webbing their freighter doesn’t need to go red, neither does their machariel or ready-to-die dragger alt for loot if any drops.

20

Modern warships sail and military aircraft routinely fly with targeting systems off and with normal navigational systems on. At a mouse click or even automatically, they can turn them on so I would have to say no.

1 Like