What’s the purpose of Ganking?

(Anthony Arturo) #1

From my current understanding if you’re in highsec and you kill another player the concord ships will blow you up no?

(Skander Parzival) #2

-Alt accounts that scoops the wrek. That is done vs high capacity freighters.
-Just for fun couse they have money and they are jerks with a little willy

(Anthony Arturo) #3

But if you scoop the wreck don’t you get a suspect tag that will allow anyone to kill you?

(Uriel the Flame) #4

Also if it is a legit target* then all CONCORD will do is grab some popcorn and watch the fireworks.

(*Faction or corp war target. Suspect or criminal.)

(Uriel the Flame) #5

You can easily get away with the loot and dock up if you know what you are doing.

(Anthony Arturo) #6

So the actual cargo itself isn’t marked as stolen? Just your ship? So if you dock and wait out the timer the cargo suddenly changes ownership?

(Uriel the Flame) #7

There is no ownership on the loot itself just the loot “container” you take from. If you have no legit access to it then it is yellow and if you take from it you become suspect but the items themselves have no owner. You only own what you can ensure being under your control.

(Memphis Baas) #8

There’s no “ownership” attribute for items or ships, and no NPCs to buy your stuff or pay attention to any sort of “stolen” flag. The entire economy is players: we manufacture ships and T1, T2 modules, and we are the ones selling / buying the NPC drops (“meta” and “officer” gear that drops). No NPCs.

So, basically, it’s a PVP game. In high-sec there are some extra combat restrictions to protect the newbies, such as Concord appearing and killing the attackers, but even that is designed to promote PVP fights between players. And of course, in low-sec there’s no Concord police, and in 0.0 sec there’s nothing - it’s fully free-for-all no repercussions to fighting each other.

Even the ships are designed to promote fights. Each ship has some sort of glaring vulnerability, and at least one nemesis ship that can completely kill it easily. Between electronic jamming, remote repairs, energy drains on the capacitor, and the drones, missiles, and guns, having spies and information about what the enemy will bring to a fight is more important than the fight itself, because if you know, you can bring the ships that match the enemy vulnerabilities.

So, industry ships (mining, transport) are generally weakly-tanked, and will have almost no DPS. And they’re designed so if you want armor then you can’t mine or transport so much, forcing you to make a choice. The high-sec suicide gankers have to figure out how tanked your ship is, so they can figure out how much firepower to bring to kill you before Concord appears, and then they have to calculate whether that’s profitable, given the cost of the ships they’ll lose vs. what you have in your cargo that can drop as loot for them to sell.

So one defense for you is to transport very little, use cheap T1 fittings and cheap ships, making it NOT worth killing you.

EDIT: There are ship scanners, cargo scanners, and silent targeting modules, so it’s quite possible for an “innocent newbie” to come within range and scan your ship without you knowing (unless you pay attention to the faint glow of the scanners). And then his friends in combat destroyers can warp to him, and land in perfect firing range from you.

So you need to pay attention to what’s going on around you, and to the list of pilots that are present in the Local chat channel (those pilots are in the same solar system as you). If the Local channel spikes (suddenly a lot of pilots enter), then a fleet has just entered. If you open d-scan so you can see what’s up to 14 au away, and you see a whole bunch of destroyer-class ships, then a suicide gank has just entered and is probably already in warp to you. So get out, dock up.

(Jonah Gravenstein) #9

Economic warfare/ interdiction, attacking supply lines is one of the oldest tricks in the book. Many people use NPC corp alts to move their stuff around because they’re invulnerable to wardecs, the only risk they take doing so is that of being suicide ganked.

(Memphis Baas) #10

And yes, as Jonah Gravenstein said, without PVP nobody would lose ships or modules, making the whole economy and all the player manufacturing stop. There are lots of fights and wars happening in 0.0 and low-sec space, but CCP wants wars and fights to happen in high-sec too. Suicide-ganking is one such option. If you make it profitable for other players to suicide-gank you, they will.

(Uriel the Flame) #11

Also there is CODE. who do it mostly for roleplay reasons. :wink:

:popcorn: :smiling_imp:

(Anthony Arturo) #12

I feel like there should be a way to scan someone to see if they have any “dormant” crimes. Like after your timer runs out you won’t have a tag but if you’re scanned it would reapply the tag. This way we could have like a sort of bounty hunter thing going lol. I’m sure this has been talked about in the past tho.

(Anthony Arturo) #13

Thanks guys that makes air more sense now. Basically the person who just blew up isn’t the one picking up the cargo. And there’s players who murder for a cause. Who is Code anyway? I’ve seen people write CODE on the forums and never knew what the hell they were talking sbout

(mkint) #14

What you’re describing is killrights. Kill someone through illegal aggression and the target gets this button they can push to make you go suspect. They can sell that right as well. I’m really not sure it ever gets used. Would be interesting to get some stats from CCP on what percentage of killrights get activated vs expire. Plus, there’s sec for illegal aggression. Do enough illegal aggression and you’re kos in highsec. Granting killrights for theft is problematic for a few reasons. There might be times you “steal” where you aren’t actually hurting anyone, such as someone leaves behind wrecks they don’t care about enough to abandon. Or people might trick rookies into going suspect and having that hanging around their necks forever would be bad. Plus you don’t want to discourage chaos too much, having people steal and go suspect is a good thing, making that follow them around might result in less theft and therefore less ship loss.

(Memphis Baas) #15

Well, attacking people in high-sec reduces your security standings. And if you get under 0 (negative standings) then you get a yellow tag. If you get under -5.0 you get a red tag and become “free for all”, anyone can attack you and Concord will no longer defend you.

Some of the pirates are quite proud of their -10.0 (maxed out negative) standings.

There are ways to “fix” your standings, but they involve hunting a lot of NPC rats for their bounties, and / or paying a lot of ISK for pirate dog-tags that you can turn in to the authorities. It’s a big grind, so most of the player pirates don’t bother with it. So you can tell them apart by their yellow tags / negative security rating on their character sheet.

The high-sec combat rules are described here. They involve flags that you get if you do certain things, and these flags allow others to retaliate and kill you for the duration that you have them.

(Anthony Arturo) #16

Why does the opposite affect do? So -10 is kos but what about 10. What does that do for you?

(mkint) #17

Gives you more wiggle room to commit illegal aggression without getting kos. Otherwise, nothing really.

(Memphis Baas) #18

Positive does nothing.

You can only go to +5, it’s been limited about 8 years ago.

It’s just a buffer, if you have +5, you can kill a few newbies before you go below 0. Pretend to be a “nice guy” for a bit.

(Anthony Arturo) #19

What about the NPC pirates. Is there a LP system for them? Yesterday I saw that there were skills that allow one to bring up your standing with npc bad guys. What does that do? Can you get your standing up with like guristas and then dock at their stations and stuff?

(Memphis Baas) #20

NPC pirates belong to NPC pirate corps, much like Caldari Navy agents belong to the Caldari Navy corp.

You can do missions for the NPC pirates (Guristas, Angel Cartel, etc.), but their agents are out in 0.0 space, and their missions will typically ask you to go kill Amarr, Minmatar, Gallente, or Caldari NPCs. So you generally ruin your standings with the empires.

The pirate corps have their own LP stores, where you can buy the “pirate” ships. For example, Machariel, Bhaalghorn, Rattlesnake, etc., you can see these ships on the market, but they are sold by players who have done missions for the pirates and have acquired these ships from the pirate LP stores. Open your Ship Chart in-game and you can see all the pirate ships, including the skill requirements to fly them.

Ellatha also has a database of all the LP stores of all the NPCs in-game, and you can search for ships or implants or whatever, and figure out which NPC corps offer them. So you can go do missions and acquire standings and LP’s, if you don’t want to just buy from the market.