Kill all Cyno!

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
1

Get rid of all kinds of jumping via cyno.

Nothing jumps, not JFs, carriers, blood, not Titans, they can use gates.
EVE doesn’t feel big, nor dangerous.

Power projection and logistics are far too easy, even with the fatigue mechanic which is mostly irrelevant due to the Ansiblex gates.

Now it matters where these cap ships are:
Can they get to the objective in time?
Do you have enough to counter aggression from your neighbor?
Can you trust your ally that just moved a strike force near by?
Will your PANIC module last long enough for rescue to arrive?
Intel and spying will be more than monitoring a watch list, if the enemy is out of position you can strike. This type of paranoia and intrigue is vital to the game, and currently it doesn’t exist.

Maybe leave Ansiblex jump portals, but make them very fragile (or not) and bulky enough to require an industrial ship to move. Allow set up where sov isn’t held, and connect if in range to bring your fleet in, provided the portal isn’t destroyed by the defenders. To add risk, allow anyone to use it, blue or red, hold the field or give the enemy a path straight to your staging system.

Wormholes still exist for unpredictable and unstable short-cuts.

Yes, the current empires’ paradigm of cap umbrellas and JF based logistics will be completely ruined. Is that really a bad thing? Currently it’s a boring and stale blue donut.

Ships that people skilled into will lose a huge amount of their utility. Work in different bonuses to take place of Cyno ability, or don’t, the cap ships are still hugely powerful.

I am uncertain of how moon ores are currently distributed but as alliances and empires area of control would be severely curtailed there arises a need to form trading relationships, or raiding strategies. Even moving ore from the fields to refinery or manufacturing facility would be inherently more risky, requiring greater cooperation.

Enlarging space in this manner will give small and medium sized corporations niches in which to live.

Guerrilla warfare becomes a thing again.

Trading convoys with escorts and opsec, are much more intense and fun than clicking “jump to Cyno” a half dozen times! I’ve been on them back when warp to zero wasn’t around.

EVE felt enormous, going to a different region was like going to a different country!

Kick the snow-globe over!
Kill the Cyno give us space to live!

HTFU and destroy the status quo.

Edit: Apparently “Assembly Hall” wasn’t the right place for this.

2

So aside from wild posturing and fantastical ideas. Do you have anything to suggest that any of these changes would do what you are claiming?

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3

Just look at what was happening in EVE before jumping was possible.

4

Ok. Your point being?

I’m still not seeing proof that what you are claiming will actually happen.

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5

I thought I was quite clear. Read the bold text parts.

Alliances are dependent on jumping for logistics and offensive/defensive power projection (this ease of power projection prevents small and medium corps from carving out their own territory); without it they are over extended and would be unable to effectivity control all of their current territory.

You could try looking at it this way:
What are cynoes used for?
How do I do that/can I do that without a Cyno?

6

More than anything what I really want to know is has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

@Scoots_Choco man, I love you and respect you and trust you to take care of this.

In all semi-seriousness, though, this does not belong in the Assembly Hall. Nobody and their grandmother is going to take this seriously, least of all CSM. You should probably relocate this post to the Fiction Portal https://forums.eveonline.com/c/fiction-portal .

Feel free to flag this post.

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7

I thought I was being clear.

Let my try phrasing it this way.

All of the bolded parts are basically you posturing. You’re claiming, “If we get rid of Cynos, X and Y will happen!”

I am asking, “How do you know X and Y will happen?”

You cannot reply to that question and say, “Look at the X and Y I said would happen! That’s why it’ll happen!”

You are lacking any proof or evidence to support your claim that removing cynos would cause any of this to happen. Sure you can sit in your armchair and claim it, but I don’t see a support for it.

For example:
When you say:

Even moving ore from the fields to refinery or manufacturing facility would be inherently more risky, requiring greater cooperation .

Why would this need greater cooperation? You don’t seem to be aware, but Nullsec is INCREDIBLY safe. It’s super easy to gate a freighter full of compressed Ore, compressed Ice, even uncompressed Moon Ore in almost perfect safety. And it’s MUCH more safer to move inside the same system itself from the ore “fields” to a Refinery. What “cooperation” do you even need in order to issue a Warp command from the belt to your structure?

So where is your proof that removing cynos would suddenly “require greater cooperation” (whatever “cooperation” means).

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8

@Scoots_Choco You seem to be vested in maintaining the status quo as it is, removing cynos would negatively affect your play style. Perhaps that is why you are so unwilling to use logic. I wasn’t posturing, I clearly stated what effects I anticipate would manifest.

I am very aware of how safe nullsec is, I detest it.
Do you stop to ask yourself “Why is it so safe?”
Hint: cyno and cap umbrella, jump freighters never go near gates and are never exposed to potential danger. Also: local chat, but that is another issue.

Are you able to source 100% of your resources for manufacturing in the same system? Congratulations if you can.
Moving resources more than a few jumps will require scouts, it’s an MMO, what kind of cooperation do you think I was talking about? Not everyone runs dozens of accounts just to monitor dozens of systems.

I don’t need to prove anything to suggest an idea. If you can’t follow the simple logic, that’s not on me.
You don’t have any authority to demand a peer reviewed study of any idea you disagree with. “Proof” “Evidence” get over yourself.

9

You must not have understood anything I wrote.

All I’m asking is that the OP provide evidence to support his claims that the things he says will happen, will actually happen.

That’s all.

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if safety is required to have correct production, people will make bots network just to watch gates.

11

Omg it just hit me, how to solve all of eves issues:

Make the game only 4 systems! Wait hear me out.

Jita: all players start here and there are 1000 asteroid belts.

Unjita: the only lowsec system has better rocks than jita.

System x is NullSec all the bees are here

System z is NullSec everyone who doesn’t want to be a bee is here.

Done.

12

you also need thera.

also, 1/1000 tidi every time :smiley: yeah \o/

13

You mean, like since capital ships were introduced 15-years ago, give or take a few years?

Using the state of EvE that far in the past as an argument to change the present is pretty flimsy.

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14

No, I mean remove cynoes, leave the rest as is.

15

You referenced a time in EvE before jumping was possible.

Jumping in EvE has been possible for 15 years, give or take a year.

Ergo, you’re referencing a time in the very distant past (in terms of game development), which isn’t really a sound motivation to change anything in and of itself.

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16

So we’re going all the way back to before 2006 for this 200IQ ■■■■ post?

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17

@Bronson_Hughes @Haulie_Berry good job on focusing on the time period of an example and not the actual issue.

18

You do realize that just about everything everything else said by all others in this thread, however serious or sarcastically said, has been more plausible and carries more merit than your suggestions right?

Even the sarcastically and not-serious-at-all outlined 5-system scenario depicted by Old Soul and Anderson poses a model for an interesting strategy game (maybe not EVE specifically but a different game), whereas your suggestion makes it so EVE alliance warfare take exactly as long as World War I and II did here on Earth.

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I won’t speak for @Haulie_Berry, but you specifically mentioned wanting to make EvE more like a certain time period. Focusing on that motivation seems perfectly relevant.

But since you won’t accept that, let’s talk about a few of your other points regarding what would happen if cynos and jump drives disappeared:

  1. The markets in hisec would collapse, or at the very least prices on most goods would skyrocket. You realize that a large portion of the items sold in hisec are manufactured in nullsec, right? And that virtually all T2 items require Morphite, which can only be mined in nullsec? Without the benefit of jump freighter logistics, these items would not be as readily able to flow into hisec. The jump freighter logi train runs both ways.

  2. Guerrilla warfare would decrease without cynos, not the other way around. Say what you will about hotdropping, but it is pretty much the very definition of guerilla warfare: get in, blap a target, get out (or die trying). Black Ops fleets would cease to be a thing, as would dread bombs, titan-bridged subcaps, and other forms of capital fleets used to turn the tide of a battle. The freedom to operate small gangs without fear of getting hotdropped would be nice, but is that really worth eliminating a vast swath of guerilla warfare tactics? I say no.

  3. Power projection is one of the benefits of owning space. If you control an area of space, you should be able to drop a massive capital force at your leisure. I would, in fact, argue that if you can’t do that then you don’t really control your space. This applies equally to all regions of space outside of hisec.

Now, having said all of that, I do agree with you and others who feel that the ability to project power outside of space that one owns, especially in losec, is a bit much with current mechanics. But the answer to that isn’t to throw out jump drives entirely.

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20

@Bronson_Hughes kudos to writing such a comprehensive and restrained response to @Xialis’s post.

@Xialis hypothetically speaking: is by some chance in hell the removal of cynos were up for consideration, how would you address the multitude of issues that arise? There would be things removed that we would still want, and there would be new problems introduced that would need to be addressed. The natures of these things vary so wildly and cannot possibly be enumerated all up front that it’s not feasible to do so. Even if they could, they could not be addressed comprehensively nor all at once.

Perhaps what would be more reasonable is making tweaks to the cyno system - tweaks have already occurred in the past and I’m sure the EVE community would be amenable to more tweaks in the future. Tweaks regarding ship classes, timings, LS vs NS, restrictions, whatever. Point is, augmenting cyno mechanics is far more viable.