Kill all Cyno!

@Scoots_Choco You seem to be vested in maintaining the status quo as it is, removing cynos would negatively affect your play style. Perhaps that is why you are so unwilling to use logic. I wasn’t posturing, I clearly stated what effects I anticipate would manifest.

I am very aware of how safe nullsec is, I detest it.
Do you stop to ask yourself “Why is it so safe?”
Hint: cyno and cap umbrella, jump freighters never go near gates and are never exposed to potential danger. Also: local chat, but that is another issue.

Are you able to source 100% of your resources for manufacturing in the same system? Congratulations if you can.
Moving resources more than a few jumps will require scouts, it’s an MMO, what kind of cooperation do you think I was talking about? Not everyone runs dozens of accounts just to monitor dozens of systems.

I don’t need to prove anything to suggest an idea. If you can’t follow the simple logic, that’s not on me.
You don’t have any authority to demand a peer reviewed study of any idea you disagree with. “Proof” “Evidence” get over yourself.

You must not have understood anything I wrote.

All I’m asking is that the OP provide evidence to support his claims that the things he says will happen, will actually happen.

That’s all.

if safety is required to have correct production, people will make bots network just to watch gates.

Omg it just hit me, how to solve all of eves issues:

Make the game only 4 systems! Wait hear me out.

Jita: all players start here and there are 1000 asteroid belts.

Unjita: the only lowsec system has better rocks than jita.

System x is NullSec all the bees are here

System z is NullSec everyone who doesn’t want to be a bee is here.

Done.

you also need thera.

also, 1/1000 tidi every time :smiley: yeah \o/

You mean, like since capital ships were introduced 15-years ago, give or take a few years?

Using the state of EvE that far in the past as an argument to change the present is pretty flimsy.

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No, I mean remove cynoes, leave the rest as is.

You referenced a time in EvE before jumping was possible.

Jumping in EvE has been possible for 15 years, give or take a year.

Ergo, you’re referencing a time in the very distant past (in terms of game development), which isn’t really a sound motivation to change anything in and of itself.

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So we’re going all the way back to before 2006 for this 200IQ ■■■■ post?

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@Bronson_Hughes @Haulie_Berry good job on focusing on the time period of an example and not the actual issue.

You do realize that just about everything everything else said by all others in this thread, however serious or sarcastically said, has been more plausible and carries more merit than your suggestions right?

Even the sarcastically and not-serious-at-all outlined 5-system scenario depicted by Old Soul and Anderson poses a model for an interesting strategy game (maybe not EVE specifically but a different game), whereas your suggestion makes it so EVE alliance warfare take exactly as long as World War I and II did here on Earth.

I won’t speak for @Haulie_Berry, but you specifically mentioned wanting to make EvE more like a certain time period. Focusing on that motivation seems perfectly relevant.

But since you won’t accept that, let’s talk about a few of your other points regarding what would happen if cynos and jump drives disappeared:

  1. The markets in hisec would collapse, or at the very least prices on most goods would skyrocket. You realize that a large portion of the items sold in hisec are manufactured in nullsec, right? And that virtually all T2 items require Morphite, which can only be mined in nullsec? Without the benefit of jump freighter logistics, these items would not be as readily able to flow into hisec. The jump freighter logi train runs both ways.

  2. Guerrilla warfare would decrease without cynos, not the other way around. Say what you will about hotdropping, but it is pretty much the very definition of guerilla warfare: get in, blap a target, get out (or die trying). Black Ops fleets would cease to be a thing, as would dread bombs, titan-bridged subcaps, and other forms of capital fleets used to turn the tide of a battle. The freedom to operate small gangs without fear of getting hotdropped would be nice, but is that really worth eliminating a vast swath of guerilla warfare tactics? I say no.

  3. Power projection is one of the benefits of owning space. If you control an area of space, you should be able to drop a massive capital force at your leisure. I would, in fact, argue that if you can’t do that then you don’t really control your space. This applies equally to all regions of space outside of hisec.

Now, having said all of that, I do agree with you and others who feel that the ability to project power outside of space that one owns, especially in losec, is a bit much with current mechanics. But the answer to that isn’t to throw out jump drives entirely.

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@Bronson_Hughes kudos to writing such a comprehensive and restrained response to @Xialis’s post.

@Xialis hypothetically speaking: is by some chance in hell the removal of cynos were up for consideration, how would you address the multitude of issues that arise? There would be things removed that we would still want, and there would be new problems introduced that would need to be addressed. The natures of these things vary so wildly and cannot possibly be enumerated all up front that it’s not feasible to do so. Even if they could, they could not be addressed comprehensively nor all at once.

Perhaps what would be more reasonable is making tweaks to the cyno system - tweaks have already occurred in the past and I’m sure the EVE community would be amenable to more tweaks in the future. Tweaks regarding ship classes, timings, LS vs NS, restrictions, whatever. Point is, augmenting cyno mechanics is far more viable.

Good job trying to dodge my question. I’m still waiting for any evidence to support all of your claims. Given that you’re active in your own thread, the only reason I can think of to explain your lack of a response is that you don’t actually have any evidence to support your claims. Is this true?

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An actual response, thank you.

I want to change one aspect, which does date back to that time period, however to construe that as wanting to roll the entirety of the game back to that state and then use that leap of logic to dismiss the idea wholesale is disingenuous.

Yes, that is what will happen. I am aware of how disruptive this would be.
Morphite would still be required for manufacture. It will be expensive, the increase in price would provide incentive to move it to market. Currently, you can get things to market with no risk.
Changing how logistics is done will open up opportunities for conflict centred around trade, namely attacking these traders hauling from null to market, defending them, etc. If prices are high enough for some resource, players will risk more to get it, why is there a cloaky mining frigate if not to do just that?

A good point, covert cynos do have a number of guerrilla warfare tactics, leaving those in would be acceptable, they could also be reworked to stabilize wormholes to allow more ships to come through. Getting small gangs constantly hotdropped by capitals from across the map discourages people from taking those small gangs out in the first place, leading to a drop in the activity taking place at all.

Yes, the idea is to limit how much area can be effectively controlled.

You’ve made good points about covert cynoes and I concede that those should remain. I still feel that traditional cynos and Titan bridges should be eliminated.

What things? You’ve said there are many yet listed none. Yes, there will be many changes, I think EVE players would be able to adapt.

Yes, CCP would likely only do tweaks, and not really address the issue for fear of offending the more risk adverse players.

The burden is on you the acknowledge the problems and propose solutions or justify why they are worth having. The burden is not on us to adapt without benefit.

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Your wording was astoundingly vague:

I don’t think my interpretation was faulty based on your statement.

And what driving factor motivates you to want to disrupt the hisec markets so much? You claim that there is no risk in moving goods to market from nullsec to hisec, but if that were the case, freighters and jump freighters would never be destroyed while moving goods, whereas the reality of the situation is that they are destroyed quite regularly. Wanting to add more risk is a valid motivation, but when you’re starting from the incorrect assumption that there is no risk to begin with, I have to question your logic.

Wow, someone got roflstomped bad from the looks of OPs thread :rofl:

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