thanks for filling my threads with your typical “I don’t know how you would even utilize that Leshak fits or against what.” shpeel allow me to break it down to you and to the rest of the EVE community since NO ONE is even putting in the brain power to think about it.
and before I break it down, " it wouldn’t even survive the Jita undock - let alone any mission or incursion." incursions maybe not. but I’ve put serious effort into flying this thing and produced this in response to some scrub losing one in a lvl 4 mission: have a look and tell me if it survived.
Did it survive? yeah? good. This fit on the test server is by itself with no backup.
Now onto the details of the fit provided for the thread.
This fit has:
136,229 EHP
81% EM 75% THERM 71% KIN 75% EXPLO
with t2 guns on the test server, I’m sure I was levelling off at 1600 or so DPS. I will refer you to the last time we spoke about this nonsense.
“The Leshak is very hard to utilize in PvE because it can take up to 2 minutes to ramp-up damage and there are very few targets that would even last (or that you would want to last) that long.” the damage done is thermal and explosive. you are right here when you say alot of NPCs wont last that long. but you seriously underestimate the survivability of this thing.
its capacitor time lasts 4:30 seconds with an Inherent Implants ‘Squire’ Capacitor Systems Operation EO-605.
" it wouldn’t even survive the Jita undock…" are you so sure. I undocked mine (fitted differently) and flew it out of Jita and clear across the cluster without anyone batting an eye. (on tranquillity) Also, I’ve run several missions and SURPRISE it’s still alive. (on tranquillity)
funny thing if you actually put some thought into this instead of filling peoples threads with your foul smelling gas maybe people could get this thing off the ground. now to be fair, it’s not just you. other idiots who have no idea what to do are also saying the same things but yet somehow I’ve proven them wrong.
I’ll quote my self by saying “this is just a rough idea.” but yet again all you do is spew nonsensical gas without contributing to anything. why not get on the test server, fit it up and, and actually test it. I’ve been testing it for almost over a month. Now if only people would stop spewing gas and try and find results with proof. because your “it sucks and won’t survive anything” is dead wrong. I could go on and on like this but I won’t. If you think it’s going to fail so hard then go to the test server fit it up and make a good video. a word of caution, I watched the video where that guy lost a leshak to guristas rats. his performance was crap, sluggish and just bad. People on the reddit post chalked it up to pilot error. bring me hard proof that this thing sucks as hard as you say it does. because as far as i can tell you are dead wrong.
I know the Leshak’s issues. im not saying its perfect. its far from it. but it has great potential to do some serious stuff outside the “structure grinding” and “stationary target” killing. i challenge anyone to actually test this thing and put it through its paces. like you would any other ship. I would like to see quality videos be they PVP or PVE. Maybe its not good enough to do incursions. ok. fine. but i know im not the only one who thought about this things potential
@Sebat_Hadah I think you may have misunderstood. I was referring to the fit by egz cz that had zero tank, no propulsion and all damage modules. I doubt the survivable EHP on that fit is more than 40k.
My Leshak actually closely resembles your fit except it has less DPS and a 560k+ EHP tank (bless those Abyssal Faction plates).
For spider-tanking I actually think your fit is pretty solid. The only downside I see is that the T2 weappn and ammunition costs are ludicrously expensive and cost prohibitive at present. Even the regular ammunition is still fairly pricey.
Dont do armor incs my self so i can only speculate so lets do that
For VG sites in general good run fleet do ~5min sites that 5 min get split in 3 waves so about 1min 40sec each and that 3 waves have about 10+ target each to deal with so spooling up dmg isnt gonna happen on anything you shoot in there.
80km death radius is what your ship should be fitted for excluding Windicators their role is somewhat specific but even than good fit windi can deal some dmg at far range of death radius moping away any frigs that didn’t succumb to artillery or tachyon weapons and than truly shine when stuff get in their web range.
Contesting…sites times drop from 5 min to 2.5 min…theres that.
Reping…Nestor i seen in action as single rep provider for a VG fleet so it swaps one logi out and 2nd one for pure DPS boat while it self can provide dps via drones so that is net fleet gain of 1500-2500dps extra on field depending what ship got in replacing 2nd logi.
I don’t think single triglav BS can keep fleet up due to lack of rep power unlike Nestor so it is two at minimum that rely on spooling up dps.
Not optimistic but looking forward to be proven wrong ships are sexy enough for me to dip in armor ahem.
Your running missions thou? you can run those in assault frig’s for comparison, incursion will be 1 difficulty up and abyss will be a few more difficulties on top of that. But for level 4’s why not, good dps good maneuverability seems fine to me.
For incursions I don’t see the problem if people have one of these on an alt to bring in to grind the structure and warp out just before it dies so that everyone doesn’t get less payout might speed up the run time a lil.
This thing would be great for a small Corp moving into a wormhole. Roll the holes and start bashing the leftover structures. Very expensive, but if you lack numbers…
Actually it depends on which ones you use and if you also use damage rigs. You’ll find that with rigs and 3 damage modules you’ll get better damage from a tracking enhancer than with a fourth damage module.
Then again the modules don’t stop stacking, but only provider weaker bonuses. So it also doesn’t just stop after 4.
Don’t know what they were to start off with but the T2 L ammo is down to around 10k-13K per round/cycle (single weapon). T1 L ammo is 22k-24k.
Some comparisons would be Faction HAMs (a popular ammo type for medium missile ships) being around 1.3k * 5-6 launchers or T2 Rage HAMS at only 115 * 5-6 launchers.
Faction Cruise missiles would be 1.8K * 7-8 launchers and T2 Fury cruise would be around 600 * 7-8 launchers.
Faction L MF crystals is in the 1.2mill range per crystal but I have no idea on the number of cycles you get out of them. T2 L Crystals is 500k each
Each run of 1k plasma ammo has a lot of condensate and only a few pieces of Crystalline Iso-10. Luckily the less popular sites like darks drop only ISO-10 while the ones most people want to run drop condensate. That said ISO-10 is dropping in value (was 500k, is now close to 280k-250k on buy orders) while condensate is staying at around 90-130k depending on trade hub. Condensate is the biggest cost to making Ammo for these weapons. I don’t know if the price will drop further than 10k tbh but it’s not that far off current faction ammo. No faction ammo for plasma weapons (yet?)
At max skill level with 4 T2 weapon mods the cycle time for L guns is 3.65 seconds, base is 8 seconds.
TDF are very interested in using LeSHARKS for Incursions and has lots of fits listed on their mailing list. We’re even planning on doing a 40 man HQ LeSHARK, spider tank incursion fleet around Christmas for fun and to test out some ideas.
For Fun sure, but I doubt they will fill a mainline role.
I ahve a Leshak for C5 Whs, the Rats are way tankier and the drifter has a tonne of EHP so there is loads of time to spool up and most NPS stay just about in the ~70K range. For Incs there are often NPCs at 100K Range and with 40 man fleet everything dies almost instantly so spooling is not great. That being said for the Tower bash HQ and the MOM you would get full DPS so they would have a niche role for sure.
If you use sentries and Meson plus a couple of tracking computers your starting DPS is 842.6 @ 83KM. That’s better than either a Nightmare, Paladin or Mach at long range. Then you factor in not needing logi so you can have more battleships on grid and things get interesting.
The site are going to have to be run completely differently though. Different anchor points different tags different ways of dividing DPS. Then there’s the spider tanking it may or may not work. There should be way way more than enough reps ongrid just from the Leshacks. Are those reps going to be reliable though that’s the thing. Or can we get away we bringing two or three Nestors on grid.
Basically there’s a lot of things to work out yet, plenty of ideas that may or may not work. It should be fun though figuring them out. It does look like a promising idea though for HQ.
I don’t think most Incs are static fleets so Sentries may not work. VGs that might work but then most people use the smaller drones to clean frigs.
842 with drones is not that great, a Nightmare shooting Xray and 4 Faction heatsinks +T2 rig (no drones, no implants ) gets 864 DPS @71+49, but unlike the Leshak goes out to 601 @ 171+49. It also gets way more Mids for TPs, TCs and Sebos. Add drones and Implants to that and for AS/HQ the Nightmare is a better ship (other than tower bash ect where the Leshak would win Hands down).
VGs the good tracking and shorter range the Leshak would be good coupled with the RR which would be more manageable in a VG (not sure if i would trust 30 other doods with the task of repping me along with shooting NPCs.
Each Leshack is equal to 0.55 t2 cruiser logi. So in a TPPH you only need 8 leshacks to rep for you to survive. In an NRF 10 leshacks need to rep you for your ship to survive. In a TCRC you need 14 Leshacks initially to rep you to survive. That’s out of a total of 38 Leshacks ongrid. There’s is way way way more than enough reps on grid.
Even if more than half the fleet is full of fucktards that don’t rep you should still be safe, in theory anyway. You also have to take into account the Leshacks will be brick tanked were as the Nightmare you described is paper thin. Infact even if you add a second EANM plus a plate, removing two heatsinks. It’s still paper thin compared to the Leshack.
In practise though all this will have to be tested thoroughly. Like i said previously the site will have to be run completely differently. The damage dealt will have to be split up much more to try and maximise the ramp up. Reaching total maximum ramp up though isn’t the be all and end all.
The fact that straight away you can bring 7 or 8 more battleships on grid for an extra initial 11k dps is. That and everyone is capable of shortrange and long range dps. Add on to that you never have to turn away from a gate because logi just dropped fleet as you landed on a gate. Or worry about a mass DC dcing all your logi. As all you need in the worst worst case scenario is 14 Leshacks for the reps which isn’t even enough to receive payout from an HQ site (20 minimum).
I would like to see them in VGs especially NCOs where everything is in occult range and ship fits aren’t gimped with additional tank(HQ) or cap stability.
Something like 8 Leshaks + 3 vindicators +booster 0 logis.
An Armor NM is pretty thin but a Shield fit can be pretty tanky. Not that it needs to be really. A lot of fits just have 1 or 2 Invlu and thats it.
You would need at least some snipers since the Leshak can’t shoot out far enough for HQs (need at least 100K). So you 38 is most likely 28, which is double the required logi.
Still being a Logi and DPS is a very hard job along with a more complex target management system to use the Ramp up would make it an elite fleet only.
Unless the spawn has been pulled you don’t need to shoot out to 100k. You just focus on the close range targets first before switching to long range. As all Sansha will burn into their orbit range. Which IIRC correctly is a max of 60km for Antems & Yuli.
As for it being elite fleet only I’m not sure about that the newbro fit we’re looking at cost around 1 billion ISK. It will be Omega only though because of the precursor skills. As a doctrine it should work though with Precursor BS 4 & large gun 4 (just use a faction gun it’s cheap) and remote armor repair to 4. So the entry bar is reasonably low.
Even when skilled up maxed for incursions the total amount of skill points is far lower than the average incursion pilot. As they have to train up logistics 5 multiple BS levels to 5 multiple gun specializations to 4 or 5 and have great out core skills. Were as a Leshack docterine is just one BS to lvl 5 one gun spec to 4/5 and good core skills. So it should be much easier to train up a Leshack incursion runner overall.