But with less base EHP.
But if you look at the case where Safety used 51 people on an Orca…1/3 of the gankers individually each got less than 1% of the damage. This seems to me to be more of a ’ I want to come along too !’ case than a case of it needing 51 Catalysts to kill an Orca.
For example Fratenity ganked an Orca in another 0.6 system using just 21 people. The same day, Safety ganked an Orca in 0.5 using just 19 people. On Dec 14th, BDI YU ganked an Orca in 0.6 using just 16 people.
One has to bear in mind also that not everyone tanks up to the maximum. I could get my Proc to 80K EHP, but that would be prohibitively expensive…so the ‘max’ figures so often quoted don’t take into account the cost vs risk for miners. Also, I’ve seen 73K EHP quoted for Procs, but what that fails to take into account is it is unbalanced across the different weapons. All the talk of ‘massive buff’ to Procs is just nonsense. Plus the Proc now has an agonisingly long alignment time and also cannot move as fast. Some of the other barges have a little more EHP…but then they were always easy to gank in the first place.
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Those are outlier kills. Yes, they happen, and will continue to happen, but they’re only possible when the combination of underlying factors aligns perfectly.
Look at it from a statistical perspective, and not from he isolated perspective of individual kills. Yes, some targets will continue to remain untanked. But overall, the amount of available firepower will need to be split between fewer targets that are on average more resilient, and that available firepower pool won’t increase unless gankers get even more accounts. But most gankers are already operating at their maximum capacity. Furthermore, the ganking community is currently experiencing attrition due to being demoralized from an unending stream of nerfs over the years. The available pool of gankers is shrinking all the time.
I don’t think anyone said that the Procurer got a “massive buff.” At least not as a mining ship. But it’s actually a fairly interesting combat ship now.
Well…one ‘could’ now fit a Proc with 2 Ogres, 2 Hammerheads, and a Hobgoblin…all doing thermal damage, and have a 70K EHP drone fortress of sorts. I think the drones can do 230 DPS of damage…at least that’s what I got from that same configuration with a Vexor.
But then, the Vexor itself can be raised to 30K EHP…and at far less cost…about 1/3 of the price.
Yeah thats fair.
But there are two sides to it…and if ganking is too easy then you are just as likely to see people stop mining. Of course both sides are going to argue that the ‘balance’ should be in their favour. The problem is trying to work out what the ‘correct’ balance should be.
The trouble is that the miner dynamic that one is raking in far more ISK than ship losses, which is the case for most miners, is not how the mentality works. I would argue miners don’t just coldly think in terms of ’ I can afford to lose 1 ship for every 50 runs ’ or whatever. I’d argue the dynamic works far more in terms of counting ship losses ( nobody likes to lose ships ) than counting ISK. Being ganked by the cohorts of some narcissistic ‘princess’ is not simply a trade transaction with a ‘ker-ching’ sound at the end.
Miners don’t see themselves as merely wildebeast…ready to sacrifice a member of the herd every few days to satiate the lions. Ganking ought to be hard. As the cat and mouse is part of the fun of Eve, I would not say ‘impossible’.
Procurers have 50 drone bandwidth now.
If I were to fit one for combat, I’d use a damage control, two drone damage mods, tackle mods, energy neutralizers, and hull HP rigs.
This setup would be considerably stronger than a cruiser in most situations, and would rival BC effectiveness at a considerably lower price point.
History has shown us that players will continue mining regardless. Look at the economic report charts during the age of “easy ganking” when you could kill a Hulk with one Catalyst.
I doubt most miners see themselves as anything. I’m getting no hint of self-consciousness from the majority of them. They operate almost like simplistic baby animals, in the sense of spending the entirety of their time feeding. If you perform an experiment where you remove the sustenance, they will screech, almost like it’s some kind of autonomic bodily reaction. Replace the sustenance, and the screeching stops and they continue feeding. These are the people who came to EVE because they saw an ad for it while playing one of their app store mobile games.
That would describe about two-thirds of all miners, I’d say. Another third consists of either bot operators or self-conscious and intelligent miners who view everything through a more rational, economic lens.
But it’s not. It’s tedious, if anything, but it’s not difficult. These changes didn’t add any difficulty either, they only made it more tedious than it was before.
How can this be true, when in two separate cases both in a 0.6 system…on one day an Orca is ganked by 51 gankers and on another by 16 ?
Clearly there is masses of spare capacity if you can take out one of the most tanked up ships in Eve with only 16 people yet zkillboard regularly shows gank attacks of 20-30 or those cases with 50 or more. There’s clearly no shortage whatever of gankers.
A Proc maybe requires 7 or 8 gankers…there’s numerous such examples. Zkillboard clearly shows those sort of numbers are readily available all day long. Only today, a Proc was ganked in Poinen by just 5 gankers. Indeed yesterday there’s another case, in Isanamo, with just 5 gankers. Both are 0.6 security.
Given that Safety can field as many as 51 people…its absurd to suggest they are struggling to find the 16 required for an Orca or the 5 or 6 for a Proc.
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In what sense are gankers any different ? I had to laugh at Aiko rattling on about miners getting ‘free ISK’ and failing to see the sheer irony that ganking those ‘free ISK’ is itself a source of ‘free ISK’.
Apparently nobody has the ‘right’ to solo mine. All very strange that nobody questioned the ‘right’ of anyone to log in with half a dozen alts and ‘feed’ off others as a solo ganker. Given that everything in Eve is ‘feeding’ of some sort, there do seem to be double standards at work…given that everyone is ‘mining’ in some manner or other.
You’re assuming that all of those players and all of those characters are available 100% of the time.
You don’t really ~get~ it. You will at some point, though, if you keep playing.
Or maybe you do and are just pretending that you don’t, I don’t know.
EvE Waffle House is owned by Interbus.
Fite me.
–Gadget likes hers with pecans.
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What system?
Syrupy system, of course 
–Gadget is at work /sigh
You shouldn’t toy with people’s emotions like that, it’s mean. 
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I think you want me to ‘get’ something that simply isn’t there to be gotten. Maybe you can see the Emperor’s finest new clothes. Maybe the fact I’m a relative noob is why I can’t 
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A dozen accounts? 15 X 12 = $180/month. GWon. Really?
No offense, but do you not realize how much of a spoiled, entitled baby you sound right now? So you went from a 16 tech1 Catalysts to gank to like, what, 14? And you’re whining about that?
Gimme a break.
I… never mentioned a dozen accounts? And I doubt anyone subbing for a dozen is paying max price either. Not sure what you’re asking about here?
You’re right. My lazy mind. “Half a dozen” was what was being talked about.
It occurs to me that CCP makes money off of botters, but alpha gankers, not so much. We should always follow the REAL money.
I was just concerned that the number of miserable whiny gankers who can’t do proper PvP so have to go round in gangs of 30 to kill a defenceless mining ship…might get reduced, and thus I’d have less to laugh at.