This sort of nonsense is exactly how the myths and urban legends in Eve get kept going. Actual Eve experience doesn’t matter. If someone sees ONE miner AFK in one system…all miners are AFK. Entire ganker groups then get created on that basis. My own actual experience is that I’ve yet to even see an AFK miner and how would I even know for 100% certainty they were AFK without being psychic. But its too late…the myths get spread and propagated.
And so it is with ‘gankers are only a tiny percent of Eve’. Of course, the myth never actually defines what ‘tiny’ is. Neither does it define a time frame. After all…200 active ‘at any one moment’ is meaningless if 200 are active for 5 minutes and then a totally different bunch are active for the next 5 minutes and so on.
And then you get the add-on that ‘these people are not ganking all the time’…as if gankers had some sort of union mandated ‘day off’. What a cop out !
Contrast this with noting the actual names of people on zkillboard and making bad standing. If people gank…they are gankers, pure and simple. They don’t go round with a big ‘It’s my day off’ sign above them. That is a FAR more reliable method of actually seeing how many gankers are in Local.
But of course…it doesn’t fit with your narrative does it.
I’m going to make this as simple for you to understand as possible, okay? Rev up that hamster wheel inside the cranial cavity and buckle up:
About 75% of all ganking in the game is conducted in Uedama, and Uedama registers about 300 total characters as active participants on a kill mail. This includes all PvP activity, not just ganking.
That is a completely different claim to asserting that there are ‘only 200 gankers active in Eve at any one moment’. I see what you did with those ‘stats’.
The problem is ‘actively ganking’. A wolf is still a wolf even if it is not ‘actively hunting’. I’m pretty sure Aiko doesn’t go round with an ‘I’m not ganking today…folks’ sign when not ‘actively ganking’. Using ‘engaged in ganking’ is just a huge cop out. I only ‘engaged in driving’ for 10 minutes today…but I am still a ‘driver’ for the remaining 23 hours 50 minutes !
As there is no way, other than hiring a psychic, to know whether a ganker is ‘active’…the only meaningful stat is whether the person is a ganker in the sense that they have any gank history on zkillboard. THAT is the true ‘number of gankers in Eve’…and it is visually evident that it is a much higher figure than yours.
This is asinine. I am only counting characters involved in an actual ganking act over a period of time. That is how statistics work.
If you’re going to count every single character that was ever involved in a gank over the game’s 18-year lifespan as a ganker, then I’m going to count every single character that ever existed in the game over its 18-year life span as part of the general population, and then we can compare those figures instead.
Hint: the ratio won’t be much different than simply using a sample period for your data.
Well…no…you and Destiny are just making up figures off the top of your head. I am telling you that if I actually add names from zkillboard to bad standing then I can actually SEE who in Local has a gank history. I mean that is what the damned thing is there for ! What better method could there be ? It tells you exactly how many gankers are in Local…its not a matter of confusion or debate.
It may not be some massive number, but it most certainly is not ‘tiny’.
Lol…there you go again with the dodgy ‘stats’ and absurd arguments. Actually I only add people who have ganked within the past month or so.
Saying that you only include people involved in ‘actual ganking’ is totally absurd. A bank robber doesn’t just cease to be a bank robber just because he’s not robbing a bank today !
But the fact that you seem to think that’s how stats work ( I actually did stats at college ) only serves to elucidate how dodgy your 200 figure is.
Well no…by your ludicrous reasoning there are zero bank robbers in the country because no banks got robbed today. That is how you arrive at your ‘stats’.
But number of ganks don’t tell you how many gank-ers there are in Eve any more than the number of bank robberies in a week tell you how many bank robb-ers there are in the country. By definition the latter two figures will be larger…as they are the pool from which stuff happens.
Thus simply counting the number of ganks is by definition going to give you a figure well below the number in the pool available to do such activity. This is statistics 101.
That means we take a sample of data (e.g. a week), and then compare the amount of players doing ganking to the general population during that time.
The bigger (or temporally longer) the sample you use, the bigger both populations will be, but the ratio is going to be very similar.
You’re making my argument sound like I’m saying that there were only 200 gankers ever, which isn’t something I ever claimed. I claimed that there’s about that many active gankers during the sample period of time (a week), compared to the general population that is comprised of a certain amount of unique characters, which is likely to be in the very low 6-digit range according to what CCP has mentioned in years past.
That would essentially mean that only 0.2% of the population consists of gankers. You’re just going to have to come to terms with the fact that a very small percentage of players is doing the lion’s share of the killing.
I never said that at all. You stated " There are only about 200 total players who are actively and consistently ganking in the game. "…and that you based this on zkillboard stats.
I am simply pointing out that your argument is akin to arguing there are only 2 bank robbers in the country because only 2 bank robberies occurred in the past month. That is effectively exactly what you are saying. That is your ‘stats’…and how you get such a low figure.
Weren’t you complaining only yesterday that bots ruin the economy by flooding the market with cheap items? Now you’re just saying that you’re flooding the market with cheap items, cause there’s basically no way to make negative profit by selling in Jita these days, unless you make it on purpose, i.e. to flood the market with items.
You know what? It’s going to be much easier for all of us if you just provide your own figure for the amount of gankers, and the statistical methodology you used to arrive at it.
I have no problem with people chilling, I have no problem with miners. Just because you chill doesn’t mean you’re afk. If you enjoy what you’re doing, as long as it’s not a problem, then why would I be against that. The problem starts when people “chill” running a billion accounts, all mining, where it looks weird and wrong for people to run into those groups and where they mess up the economy.
I DO have problems with play styles where being AFK doesn’t really have any downsides to it as I feel that activity and effort should be rewarded. But AFK miners had the same yield as active ones which I feel is unfair: active miners, miners who put in effort to increase their safety and production, should have the advantage.
I don’t like the concept of equality of outcome, where people regardless of their (in)actions demand to have everything worked out and maxed out for them.
I think I have to go with Destiny on this one. I won’t say that 200 player-gankers and 400k active annual players is highly accurate, but those numbers aren’t way off from my own estimates either.
(It also depends if you are counting unique ganker players, or ganker-main plus their alts.)
It’s been a while since I did any tracking/counting of ganking as a percentage activity of overall gameplay because it takes a lot of time, characters and flying around. However CCPs own stats show that, for instance, ganking has to be on the order of about 5% or less of activity in the game.
One thing that can make them seem more common is that they are concentrated in very small areas of high-sec, and they tend to mostly all be active around similar time periods. So if you’re in those areas, during those times, they may seem to be everywhere. But as a percentage of New Eden’s 7,500+ systems and 26,000 ish players online, they’re pretty small.
That said, it only takes a couple dozen wasps to ruin a picnic. So to anyone doing activities when/where they’re active, even 2% of players ganking can be a nuisance.
This is a big part of it I’d say. The Uedama system was chosen for a very obvious reason: lots of pve/carebear traffic which generally means easy and juicy targets. So the, shall we say, less pvp inclined folks who make use of that system, will run into them a lot. Having said that, I have my own AG thingy going on where I “patrol” Uedama but it’s not really all that active in the times that I do it.
