No. The simple fact that you’ve undocked makes it fair.
You are still only confusing fairness with preference of situation.
Fairness is when everyone, given the exact circumstances, can achieve the same outcome.
Undocking is broad consent to be engaged, not an agreement to fight fair.
And you are still confusing the fairness of a specific situation with the fairness of the entire list of possible outcomes in a scenario where they are all possible. Just because in a hypothetical world you could counter them, doesn’t mean that in reality you can counter them. Only that you hypothetically could in some alternate universe.
If you cannot counter them, it is an unfair fight. Speaking back to the initial comment I made, that particular outcome is Eve. It’s acceptable. It’s intended.
1 Like
No, just no… I’m done explaining fairness to you. Use a dictionary and look it up.
And maybe ask yourself, when you think most fights are unfair, because you always have a winner and a loser, then what’s the point of balancing ships? To someone with no comprehension of fairness as yourself must it seem like a completely random thing to do.
Yet again you conflate fairness with other stuff.
Ships are balanced to encourage fairness. Ships are balanced to encourage diversity and reduce FOTM. For that matter, CCP balancing things in a rock/paper/scissors fashion inherently means some fights are unfair. Consider bombers vs rattler again. Entirely unfair for the rattler. Yet, it’s very well balanced.
Fights are unfair because players make them unfair. There’s no reason to fight fair. CCP, producing an open sandbox game, does not discourage unfair practices. (edited for clarity)
Lastly, there will always be a winner and a loser, even in a perfectly fair fight. Truthfully there have also been instances of ties (I remember reading someone’s AAR where they both ended up burning out their guns and warped off after laughing about it). Winning or losing has no impact on whether there will be winners or losers, it impacts which party will win or lose.
1 Like
No, you do.
According to you is the following situation unfair:
Two players, with equal skills and ships and fittings have a fight. One forgets to turn on a module and loses. He now claims it was an unfair fight, because he forgot to turn on a module.
Fair or unfair?
It was fair.
Now you’re putting words in my mouth. I never said anything of the sort. Quite the opposite, I believe that’s as close to a fair fight as you can get in an open world.
What I say is unfair would be one pilot being engaged by 3. Say for example FW, dude’s running a plex, and he gets attacked by 3. 3v1 is not a fair fight. Never was, never will be.
YOU say that it’s fair because he could just call in 2 dudes to help him. Except… there are no 2 dudes to help him.
1 Like
No. You only think it was close to fair, which is not the same as being fair.
You can be close to death, still you’re not dead.
This I can admit to being correct. In my initial reply I neglected to read “equal skill”, which in reality is impossible, but academically speaking, you are correct it is a purely fair fight.
That said, you have failed to answer my counter argument. So I will ask again.
Do you assert that when a pilot is engaged in a 3v1, it is still a fair fight because he could have warped off, or he could have called in friends to help him?
1 Like
It’s both fair.
How? The solo pilot has no way to win the fight. He can deny the fight, sure. But in that case, the fight was prevented, not made fair. He can call in reinforcements, if he has them, but in this case, he has none. The fight remains unfair.
Just because hypothetical options exist to make an unfair fight fair, doesn’t mean that the fight is intrinsically fair. Equal opportunity is not fairness when it is applied to a very subjective instance.
1 Like
Fairness does not conclude to success. You aren’t supposed to always win in EVE. Rather do you get the same chance to win as everyone else.
Which brings me back to my original statement:
You have the same opportunities as everyone else in Eve. This much is true. But the opportunity to engage in an unfair fight does not make the fight fair.
1 Like
Yes it does, because you’re not forced to engage. And even when you decide to can you not foresee the outcome. You might win against the odds. Do you think it’s unfair to win against odds?
You aren’t forced to do anything. How you end up in an engagement, whether through your own choice or someone else’s does not speak even one bit to the fairness of the encounter. Merely that you have ways to avoid unfair encounters.
If the odds are stacked in one direction or the other, it wasn’t fair to start with. As you stated (and I agree with) winning or losing has nothing to do with the fairness of a situation. Winning an unfair fight is hella-fun, but that doesn’t change the fact that it was an unfair fight to begin with.
1 Like
You mean your chances to win. Again, this has nothing to do with the concept of fairness.
If you win or if you lose, if your success or failure is certain, or if it’s uncertain, has nothing to do with fairness. Your chances simply vary over time. One moment you’re in a battleship, the next you’re in a pod … As long as these variations remain the same for all is it still fair.
No, I mean fairness. Your chance to win is directly impacted by how fair you make the fight. If you stack the odds enough, your chance to win is all but assured. Merely that “someone will win and someone will lose” is irrelevant to fairness, yes. “The specific winner and loser” are entirely related to fairness.
The fairness of the encounter sways a determination of the outcome. An unfair encounter will more greatly sway the outcome toward one you desire, often times to the point where there is only one real outcome. Yes it’s possible for a rattlesnake to fight off 30 bombers. Doesn’t mean it’ll ever happen. Doesn’t mean it was a fair fight. Just means that the rattlesnake won the fight miraculously.
1 Like
I know you do, but that’s why I’m correcting you. The fights are made fair by CCP. How you fight doesn’t change this. We all know players like to create their own situations, and in those very moments it indeed may seem fair or unfair, depending only on which side you’re on. That’s however just played fairness. It’s not real. EVE, as a game is real, and the maker puts a lot of effort into it to keep it fair for all.
Enough about fairness.
Go back to your original example, 1v1, equal skill, equal fits. Lets say a frigate duel in a FW plex. Perfectly fair fight, right? Of course it is. We already agreed on that.
Except, one of the dudes goes and brings in a friend. Is it still a fair fight? No, of course not. The solo pilot’s odds just went down the toilet. Could he still win? Yea, sure he could. But it’s not fair.
Now imagine instead of bringing 1 extra dude, he brings in 5. One Falcon with 5 racials for the intended fight, two basi, a huginn, and a RLML Cerb. Fair? Of course not. The solo pilot’s odds are now zero. If the solo pilot’s odds are zero, it’s not a fair fight.
You may say that because all players have the ability to engage in unfair fights, Eve as a whole is fair. And in that aspect, you are right. But I’m not talking about Eve as a whole, I’m talking about Eve as a sum of its parts. The mere presence of an unfair fight makes it impossible for Eve as a sum of it’s parts to be a fair game. Merely a game of equal opportunity, where people can ■■■■ on you and you can ■■■■ on other people. That doesn’t make each individual trip to the toilet fair.
1 Like
There is no such thing as a fair fight in eve online. Never has been. Never will be.
At this point I’m inclined to believe whitehound is merely another alt of dryson. Same amount of theatrics, same lack of substance.
5 Likes