And so it is written! Please let it be done
Sorry, I don’t mean to sound bitter but I really don’t understand why you guys feel the need to re-invent the wheel with each new game patch release. How about just concentrating on stuff that actually needs to be fixed, polished and or changed instead of constantly messing around with stuff that already works in game, ultimately breaking it while in the process of changing it.
Why change it? The actual Agency interface was fine like it was, there wasn’t any reason to change it. Also I thought CCP had plans to add new events to the game every couple of months?
The in-game UI is already heavily loaded with ton’s of other stuff to begin with, not to mention the graphics ‘eye-candy’ aspect on screen is already too top heavy which causes drop in frame rates at various times resulting in jumpy / laggy display and control of the game.
Maybe I misunderstood but I thought Resource Wars was an Event set to run for a limited amount of time? It should be presented in the Agency interface when it happens. Adding a map link to the various site locations is ok.
Agents are already listed in the Agent Finder, why remove that app? If it’s a question of their location, add a map link. As for letting players know when an Agent becomes available, just have an info notification show up after they gain the required amount of standing.
Asteroid Belts? It’s already easy to find them in almost every system within Eve just by right clicking the mouse in empty space while undocked. If you seriously want players to have the ability to find specific Ore type locations, just add a ‘Mining Map’ to the game.
Epic Arc Agents. Those are actually Event Agents, just like Career, Circle, Cosmos and Data Center Agents. I suggest adding all those agents to the ‘Epic’ tab in the journal along with an availability status. As for their locations, once again just add a map link.
Signatures and Anomalies. No, just no. That’s Exploration which means actually going out and traveling around to find them. The in-game system sensor sweep already informs players if there’s signatures and anomalies present without even launching a probe (showing anomalies is fine, signatures should require at least 1 probe launched in order to be seen). Also most sites are usually completed rather quickly which means this new app will just be leading players on a wild goose chase.
Incursions are already listed in the journal, if an actual list of all Incursion sites and their locations is needed, again just add a map link. To make players aware of newly created Incursion sites, just include an info notification.
Landmarks. They already show in the Overview and in the Star Map. If you want those exposed more to players, just add a ‘Landmarks’ tab to the journal that lists all Landmarks within the Eve Universe along with a map link to show their locations.
Factional Warfare. Simply add a ‘Factional Warfare’ tab to the journal that lists all systems and their status with a map link to view their actual locations.
Escalations. Once again no, just no. This is all part of exploration and there’s already an ‘Expedition’ tab in the journal, it just needs to include a bit more info. Adding a reminder notification about active expeditions could help. Also the ‘24 hr despawn timer’ needs to be changed back to how it use to be, meaning the 24 hr timer is reset after initiating warp to the site. Now if the timer is constantly reset and the site remains uncompleted for 7 days, the site despawns and the expedition listing is removed from the journal.
Since this new change has already been announced and is going to be implemented next month, why even bother with testing. Also what ever happened to presenting the idea in a thread first for player feedback before actually committing man hours and resources into creating it?
I gotta say you guys are going overboard with catering to the ‘Instant Gratification’ crowd. In the process of doing that you’re literally dumbing down this game, thus depriving players of having the satisfaction and joy at overcoming challenging tasks.
Just remember this, sometimes the simplest easy way of doing things is not always the best most fulfilling way of doing things.
Sorry for ruining your time and work typing all of that but… Allow me to point out a few things here…
Several teams, several functions. This is more related to the UI team, not Balance team or whatever they call it.
Possible bugs and other tweaks players may present to make things more interesting or simple, like the suggestion to move the limited amount of time for resource war site to expire to make the window a bit smaller, so on.
And for the big wall of text about what should be in or not, perhaps you failed to read the whole thread posts where another fellow player stated its concern about that
I already read the whole thread and I replied to what was posted in the Dev Blog which specifically states specific items such as ‘Signatures and Anomalies’.
As for my remark about concentrating on fixing stuff, I didn’t specifically say which items and besides that, all teams should already have a list of stuff that needs to be fixed, polished and or changed.
Testing is great and should be done extensively before anything is implemented into the game. However CCP has proven time and time again to rush things as well as ignore player input about it’s testing.
Maybe next time before trying to tear apart someone’s reply, try actually reading it first.
Rename it to something connected with Aura. Why some “Agency” gave intel to the public?
See the thing is, I did, and you pointed out Several things that were clarified previously, and I don’t see you saying on that post that you did read or anything since you are just having a go at it without having a second thought. You pretty much just took the time to state concerns that most were already clarified.
About the teams, who said they’re not working on it? We are already seeing balance tweaks on ships we fly, and we all know that these sort of things are a mess to balance considering the several different modules you can put in a ship. Bugs and other things? I am sure they will get there in due time as long as people mass report the bug through Bug Report rather than bashing at CCP for not fixing things in the forums.
This window will be mostly useless for explorers anyway because you can just pop open the Probe Scanner to see what’s around without seeing lists of other things, they need to be in the system in order to find anomalies and signatures so… And my prediction is if it works like the map then I’d much rather have the instant system map with the probe scanner tagged along to start working right away than the big galaxy map with all sorts of info that takes a bit longer to load up. And even for other people they need to go out and explore for all the info they want since the window seems to be restricted at how many results it shows, not sure if it will remain like this but I know I wouldn’t complain since its part of moving around to find stuff.
Everything else in the window is flavour
Asteroid belts? We already know there is always a static number of belts and we all know we save that one image from EvE Uni to know where the ore types are, so you could consider this the “Ore Map” you’re talking about, but one that still requires you to go out and research
Agents? At least you get a more visual style of where they actually are without opening a map and an app and you get info about their standings with you as well in just one window.
Resource wars, anomalies, signatures, only show up on the same system regardless of how far you have set your filter to. They even give us a button to open the Probe Scanner window when we click Signatures on the Agency Window lolol
I don’t see a problem in showing Escalations on here since you will open the map to see the route anyway… Have no clue how much of an “Exploration” Escalations gives so you kinda threw something there for no reason at all and you kinda forced me to show you that I did read your post cause I really didn’t want to point this one mistake you did out of kindness.
Overall this is just a “One-in-all with a map” menu with a neat modern presentation, explorers will always use the probe scanner over this map since it doesn’t show the map of the system to mess with probes!
And for the others you still got the other methods, so why complain? Not like they are shoving this down your throat or something. Mission Runners can still use the old Agent Finder (I myself will use this new window since it provides a map with it and standings) and Miners can still right click space to warp to the asteroid belt.
Overall it’s a win-win situation, some get something fancy, others don’t use it, just like Captain Quarters.
@CCP_Claymore One bug found when changing systems with filter on, window does not update information properly and requires a change of filters to fix it.
You may think it’s a ‘Win-Win Situation’ for everybody which is your right to think so but since all of the info contained within it can be found elsewhere with much more detail, that fact actually makes this new ‘User Interface’ a waste of Developer resources and man hours which could have been applied elsewhere.
I didn’t make any mistakes in my original reply and quite frankly I don’t really care to get into a forum flame war with you about it. Everybody has a right to voice their own opinion about it, you already voiced yours so stop contradicting others when they voice their own opinions.
Then do explain your opinion on how showing Escalations in this new window (which the UI team is making and not any other team that is focusing on other things) will ruin Exploration, I’d like to be enlightened as to why it is not a mistake.
To be quite honest, it’s a waste because it adds yet another window to display information that is already available in up to 3 different windows/UI areas. Take agents, for instance: Agent Finder, People and Places, Journal, Mission UI HUD indicator. This window would be an unanimously good thing if it combined all these windows into 1 and made the others obsolete, while not losing any information and instead make more information available.
Instead of having to consult 3 different windows/UI areas to see my agents and missions, it would be kind of interesting to have all the information in one window, easily accessible and easily digestible. Or in other words: Instead of this yet another dribs and drabs a vision to coherently unify UI elements into one better user experience. Obviously, the Mission UI HUD indicator stay where it is in the HUD, but Mission Journal, Agent Finder and Agent List could and should all be combined into one window.
Yes, you cannot make everyone happy with such a massive work because some people will always complain. After all, I am one of them. However, if the experience is objectively better, easier to comprehend, easier to read, easier to access, lightweight on screenspace, proper and good filters with modular elements (for instance, to hide the map or not show the map at all when you access your agent list, or hide/show the map when you want to see where a mission is/leads to with proper radial menu/right click options, etc) to save space when possible, a grander vision to improve the EVE UI can garner a lot more positive feedback and acceptance than the umpteenth small change and added complication layer for players and developers alike. But instead, CCP adds a half-developed (see the things mentioned by Claymore as not in the initial release or maybe at a later state) feature that improves little and only adds more bloat.
Since Escalations are random and Expeditions only last for 24 hrs, just exactly how many active Expeditions do you have in your journal at any given time that merits the necessity of including that info in another UI window?
Also stop twisting my statements around, I never said showing Escalations in it would ruin Exploration. I said there’s already an ‘Expedition’ tab in the journal which could be updated to include a bit more info about the actual site. Also adding a notification about active Expeditions could remind players they have an active Expedition available.
This right here is the point I was trying to make.
Excuse me, but when I see you saying “no no” and mention “it is all part of exploration” then I am not twisting it and right now I am watching you trying to play victim right now, which I hope it isn’t true and want to believe it was just a poorly thought out phrase. You did mention the improvements, which I did not say I was against either, but you clearly do not want this to be an option by how you phrased it.
And to be quite franc that only states that I am correct when I say “Yeah some will use the old style of popping open several windows, when others want a more compact version with everything already there”, there will be people that find this particularly helpful while others will just outright dislike it just because “theres already that but separately” and just cannot accept an Option. I wonder how it would have been if they said “this window will replace every other window” Would surely cause a much bigger ruckus than the switch to the new forums did, so be glad its nothing forced.
I for one will use that window for agents, since I like how you can filter them all like you could on the old windows, comes with a map that shows their location on the galaxy and the standings to see if I can interact with or not.
If you do not like it, power to you, don’t use it, just don’t complain about something optional and say it shouldn’t happen “because they’re spending resources that could be used in something not related to the UI team”, this feels the same as complaining about cosmetic DLC in a single player game, the difference being that if you buy the dlc means you liked it and support the company, here you don’t even support anything. its just a window being made for free to us, a minor quality of life improvement for some that you can just leave aside if you do not like it.
And that’s where you are wrong. It is optional now, but will eventually replace the old features, like the system map replaced the old system map, the new beta map (that isn’t beta for years according to CCP) will eventually replace the old map, the probe scanning has replaced the old probe scanning system and still has lots to wish for, and so on. And as the map has shown, CCP is not exactly good at replacing old features with new features that retain usability and improve upon it instead of crawling back to the previous state of things. In my opinion it is vital to complain about anything that CCP makes available optional but that should replace and reduce functionality in the future.
If CCP had a better track record when replacing UI elements or other things, fewer people would complain. It’s not my or any users’ fault that they came to be so likely to complain about change, it’s CCP’s fault for not doing things properly.
Same here, to be quite honest. Instead of making such an early development stage available for “testing”, they should have implemented all features first, make the feature as feature complete as possible and then make it available for testing so that people can actually test a “complete” feature and find actual bugs and problems instead of repeatedly noting (intentionally) missing features or things that will get better soon™.
This depends entirely on how they developed it. I outlined above what would, in my very unhumble opinion, create a better user experience when they want to replace and combine several UI features into one coherent UI vision. It cannot be that difficult to come up with a UI that is useful, feature-rich and customizable and not just sparkly eye candy.
I understand that CCP is afraid of “jesus features” because of poor performance in the past. But instead of buying your head into the sand, you should learn from it and improve when you take on another “jesus feature”. Besides, can you even call the combination of mission journal, agent finder and agent contacts into 1 window a jesus feature? Seems to me to be a very low bar. Furthermore, it might just be me but the user feedback on all the small changes has not been exactly overwhelmingly positive either.
As far as I am concerned I don’t see this replacing the other windows, and CCP would have to mention it for that to happen, all that you mentioned about the scanner and map were improvements, not replacements, otherwise they would trash the map again, recode the probe scan window and all other things just so they are exclusive to this new window (Case in point you cannot see where anomalies and signatures are in the new window even if you zoom in the system). I have no clue how different the old scan window is since in the past I paid 0 attention to exploration, but the scan window now is pretty simple to use and visible enough to do what I want and the new map is simple enough for me to play with once I got used to it by colouring with the info I want to know and stuff. I do agree with the fact CCP Should make things more complete if they plan to implement them rather than gradually, which can possibly bring a few bugs with changes (like the other patch when they made signatures you scan stay revealed till they are completed by someone or you logout instead of switching system or docking) but if it’s their way of working to see how it fairs with the crowd, so be it.
Which again brings the usual answer I like to give to people “I like salmon, others do not like it.”, and this happens everywhere, if companies are not allowed to do what they Want because they believe its for the Best because of a minority that complains about it, then I don’t think WoW would still have Pandas as a playable race since that made a huge ruckus. We should instead contribute and help them improve it to make the game great again.
Now wheres the guy that was supposed to explain me about that phrase I pointed out before?
Anyway, in order to have all our questions answered in terms of “will this replace everything else”, let’s ask CCP Claymore and see what he has to say about this matter to let us know whether or not this will replace the old windows since you seem to automatically assume it will without any proof (Solid proof of a group of features being replaced, not one with improvements)
@CCP_Claymore would you kindly inform us if this new Agency window will eventually replace the old windows in the future?
Opinions based in a very early development stage are questionable if you ask me. But at least we don’t need to pay for Early Access.
If you find the beta map to be useful, you seem to have a very low bar for satisfaction. Not only are the data indicators less comprehensible than in the old map, they are also inaccurate, the coloring of the gate connections is less intelligible and less feature rich.
For instance, when I check courier contract routes in the old map, I can have 2 data sets displayed at once: players in space as blobs, system security with the gate lines. This is not possible in the new map. In the same vein, the color gradient for blobs and gate connections is only from yellow to red, not blue to red like in the old map, which makes data visualization less intelligible. In the old map you can also have 2 routes displayed at once (a previous AP route and the route for a courier contract). Just 3 examples for things that people keep criticizing every since the new map was introduced and elevated out of beta status by CCP Rise. The new map is also a lot heavier on your hardware if you have lots of bookmarks, which you then need to hide completely, although you want to see them on the system zoom level, for instance.
You may find all this irrelevant as you “got used to it”, I don’t see why I should accept this kind of sorry state after years of development and paused development of a non-beta feature. Therefore, complaining and criticizing early if they make things available prematurely ensures that things still have a chance to turn into a better feature and don’t cement a worse user experience because of lack of opposition.
In my opinion, commending developers is not going to contribute anything to make the game better. I praise where praise is due, and criticize where criticism is due. And I always garnish my criticism with elaborate improvement suggestions. Just because I don’t sugarcoat my suggestions like others does not mean they are not there.
In that case where features like those that were on the old map would be heavily beneficial on the new one you just gotta make a thread and call the attention of CCP and ensure many people engage with it, in my eyes I see many people that just flail torches and pitchforks for no reason, and with many questionable ideas that pop up in that thread then I guess it would be natural that some would be overlooked. If you were to tell me right now you were making a formal and constructive thread to improve the map without bashing the current state, I would vote for it. Because it shows an honest concern about something that Should be there, things look much better and serious if we keep things like gentlemen.
Now I am not saying commending devs will make contributions, I am with the idea of helping the devs with ideas and constructive criticism, but if anything, commending someone for mistakes is just against the point. I remember when I played Life is Feudal, ever since that game was on early alpha people tried to help the devs make it better. Instead of listening the community the devs got greedy and made it worse, ignoring it and focusing on an MMO version we were promised a free entry only to find that only people that buy a “early access” package would get in. I even got banned from the discussion forum because one of the devs didn’t like how direct I was and my comments deleted because the dev was too “sensitive” to the truth and called me a troll (specially when Easter event was stated to last only a week and it was over two months since they updated it for minor fixes and to remove Easter when the game still had major breaking bugs that remained since years).
I like to think that CCP is trying, they are balancing things, tweaking features like Moon Mining is right now (another case where this in High Sec and WH should be a thing already with the tweak and they state “soon”) and coming up with new stuff. We as the playerbase need to just grab ourselves and form constructive feedback, say things like “This is not that good, why won’t you do it like this instead to benefit everyone” instead of “this is ■■■■ get rid of it now”, things with polls to see who is the majority voting for what, and keep everything civilised (I understand this last part is hard considering it’s the Internet, but it feels much better to see something with respect towards your work rather than trashing it right?).
And CCP as a company need to listen to us better, some teams are taking notes, Claymore seems to be interacting with people in this thread when he has the time to clear out some questions and even agree with some of the ideas proposed here, CCP karkur made a thread asking people “Hey, give us ideas or improvements you would like to see in terms of UI since it is what my team focuses on” and I respect the teams that actually interact with us. I am not counting the interactions made through little silly things like “Give me pictures to post on my empty blank wall”, I agree with these interactions, but not to be praised over game improvements. There are fields that needs work tho, and CCP was already mentioned as a company that managed to make “ingame currency inflation” less of a big deal compared to other games, now they need to be that company that “listens to the community to improve the game”, and asking the people and interacting is a start.
Call me naive, I am just an honest guy that likes to imagine a world how it should be in order to function properly without the flaws of the several different traits people have like greed and laziness and stuff like that that hinders work.
I am fully aware that we go a bit off-topic here, but anyways: Trying is all nice and dandy, but after 5 official New Map devblog feedback and comment topics, several player created feedback topics in all of which I have participated with lots of suggestions and a seemingly again interrupted development of the new map (last patch notes have no reference to the map development after the little july dev burst that made the map worse in some aspects), I am not convinced that CCP is trying hard enough. To me it seems they put too much on their plate and don’t finish a project thourougly first before switching to a new project.
I mean Larikin’s team started working on the map again. Now they use parts of that map in this window, but the new map is still no where near finished. The new map is very controversial, but why not just put in the manhours to finish it for good and then concentrate on another thing like this Agency window and make it a whole feature that an entire dev team could concentrate on. As far as I know it is general consensus among the “vocal minority” (ie. the people who speak on the forums/reddit/whatnot) that the EVE UI needs a rework; however, with only baby steps, only a kind of blurred vision and no bigger steps since the still flawed implementation of their light and transparency UI theme (the neocom bar is still always transparent even if transparency is turned off), where does it lead to?
I am probably no less naive than you are and I definitely do not want anything similar happening here what you experienced with with these LIF developers. However, with the seemingly erratic progress and random development stops I am losing confidence in that CCP can actually manage to pull that off.
Think we can all agree that nowadays devs consider making a game more like work than a passion like the rare devs that demonstrate will to work on their game
This went from “Excuse me but …” to “They have bigger dicks, bomb them!” fast
It is not a waste of time until/unless it ends up as half-made, broken, seldom used thing in 7th layer of some obscure menu. If/when that happens then we can come back and say “CCP, you wasted time on this”.
None of us have design document nor roadmap for this. We’ve been presented with first public iteration and hinted at few tidbits. Yet, we, clairvoyant af, foresee next two years of development and condemn this to hanging-at-dawn.
How about we comment on what is there to see and leave what isn’t to future?
Also, how did this pass any logic processors:
- CCP is bad at what they do
- CCP should work on fixing stuff
Now, if CCP were bad at what they do wouldn’t the most positive thing they could do leave everything as it is? It’s crap but since they are incompetent any intervention will only make it worse, right?
Finally, if you are claiming that this game received no good UI changes you either haven’t been here long, are blind, troll or a dick. This game’s trail is of gems and turds. Like any other trail.