The main moon ore is what will come from the ore. everything else including amounts are all placeholders
Ok so i got my testing refinery set up and just fired the gun now att 11 pm swedish time.
Pretty nice animations I have to say.
Lets hope this moon dosent have a bunch of aliens sleeping under it’s crust and I just pull em into my structure 
Gonna keep my plasma cutter close just in case LOL
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Would it be possible to make the extraction calendar events a different colour from other events.
And there is a typo in Upcoming events list (Extraction has a c)
It’s been a stated goal, and marketing, of CCP to let players build the universe. Is there any particular technical reason you guys walked back from that goal somewhat in the refinery anchoring process with the introduction of static, algorithmically placed beacons? (contrary to player placed ones, ala Poco gantries) I hope we are still at an early enough stage where we can switch from a king of the hill mechanic to a capture the flag mechanic instead. There are numerous reasons why.
Problems with the king of the hill mechanic:
- Static warp ins break the immersion and player choice CCP has tried to cultivate and market with the release of Upwell structures.
a. Robs players of strategic choice and expression in picking a point where asteroid field and 1 other target are instant warps.
b. Robs players of aesthetic choice - King of the hill mechanics @ 250km require the wholesale destruction of the current occupying structure before a new one can be placed. (Due to upwell 1000km anchoring requirement.) This is bad because
a. Moon beacons can never be the small, spontaneous conflict driver siphons were originally intended to be because all Moon Beacon conflict is forced into the Upwell reinforcement structure with long timers, Supercapital Escalations, and abusive timezone tanking.
b. Requiring wholesale destruction to handoff moons is bad for blue on blue and diplomatically based handoffs. Forced unanchoring destroys rigs. This forces an owner to seek to recoup that rig investment by
i. either passing that cost onto the purchaser, increasing friction on trades
ii. or eat the loss
neither of which is very palatable. If an owner is not around to transfer, which happens often, their social organization is forced to either idle one of their collective resources by having no one mine the moon, or shaft one of their members who might be on vacation, all the while wasting time on a 3 timer upwell structure grind.
This is bad game design to force this much pain upon the players --who are your customers-- and who additionally would be losing 3b, at minimum, that they could have spent on plex, which means that each time this scenario happens is a $45 hit to CCP’s pocketbook. Worse so for large rigged refineries.
- Static warp in’s don’t even produce beacons for some fat moons above a certain radii. (I suspect the beacon gets swallowed inside the moon, but it wouldn’t even be an issue with players placing them.) (FVXK-D system is a great example with multiple fatmoons including the behemoth 2-14, second in size only to its sun… barely…) (This particular moon is so fat that you can’t even warp in and launch moon survey probe successfully. I suggest raising survey probe ‘sanity check’ to 250,000 or 300,000 km to accommodate the 30 some oddball superfats in the game.)
Capture the Flag Proposal: Do away with the ‘moon mining beacon’ found on sisi in favor of an actual small size, player placed, upwell (coded) structure.
Tentatively calling it ‘Upwell Targeting Laser’
Proposed 100m3 or similar portability
Has upwell ACL lists enabling taxes
60m-100m intended cost, drops half its components as small m3 loot, encouraging pillaging.
Timer structure
Either 50,000 hp or entosisable shield -> 30 minute reinforcement timer -> 250k remaining ehp. HP resets to full hp if not damaged for 15 mins.
Vulnerable based on ADM’s ala Sov structures. In Lowsec, vulnerable based off of adjoined refinery. Tethers to refinery when invulnerable.
Non-functional, non-paid, or non-existent Targeting Laser pauses Standup Drill Cycle.
Bonus points if it’s limiting factor/special sauce in production is a new lowsec version of morphite/mercoxit. Solve chicken and egg problem by inserting some into the next monthly event’s loot table.
Intended Outcomes:
- Scoop able, relocatable Upwell Targeting Laser cuts down on blue on blue drama and headaches while allowing for bureaucratic oversight.
- Taxes! I know this kind of code exists somewhere, because Poco’s exist and tax things. Combine that with Access Lists and structure geotagging for ease of management. Tax either on start of moon cycle (w/ yes/no prompt), end of cycle, or on a daily basis at downtime. Player organizations have long compensated for CCP’s deficiency with out of game tools for moon taxation. They shouldn’t have to. This is a great opportunity to remedy this.
- Medium Low value makes defensive over-escalation unlikely, short reinforcement timer provides defense formation opportunity and combined with low total EHP gives aggressors quick resolution, encouraging small gang warfare and roaming targets of opportunity.
- High fraction of value as salvage encourages and rewards attackers for pillaging these structures.
- Player decided placement enables defenders to configure their battlefield as they see fit, rewarding their foresight and planning capabilities.
- Small volume, personal deployable level portability allows roamers to plant their flag, and taxes, in enemy lands filling the gameplay niche siphon units failed to.
- Lowsec version of morphite/mercoxit built into the destruction economy creates a new, non-isk value spigot for lowsec, which combined with more generous timer invulnerability encourages residency.
- Creation of Targeting lasers as the first upwell small sized outrigger structure paves the development work for CCP to add other desired services as outrigger functions, eg; Cyno Beacons. The sky is the limit.
At the end of the day, we would have a much more engaging and immersive experience with more opportunities for realized content generation with a capture the flag mechanic than the proposed king of the hill mechanic.
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can we know what the final expected m3 of these ores are?
will R4 be the same m3 as R64?
will the refine values be universal between all roids?
will the variances be biased upon system sec or something else
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What is the current minimum extraction period?
2 days. Max is currently 56 days.
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That’s not too bad.
I have a suggestion; on the description for not just these new mining platforms, but all citadel structures, that it actually states that it must be placed at 1000km from this and 500km from that. I didnt figure that out until I tried laying a couple of these down.
When they have to be 1000 kms away from something, give us a way to more easily get to 1000km away from a celestial, other than sitting in an interceptor for 10 minutes while you burn pings across the universe.
That would be just great
An observation on the extraction initialization:
When starting the extraction on the dark side of a moon, it looks really good. You see the effects on the moon clearly.
When starting the extraction on the light side of a moon, it looks like nothing is happing to the moon itself - the sun’s light washes out the effects. The drill’s firing effects look great, in either case, but the effects on the moon are pretty muted if they are on the sunny side.
I would agree with concern that having a fixed location for the drilling to take place is very limiting. I am not certain why that was chosen over having an anchor-able band around the moon and whichever drill is active in that band then prevents any other platform from drilling at the same time, but I imagine that for the sake of expediency the fixed location was chosen.
I saw that there actually is a Upwell Mining Beacon or some such thing. That’s pretty cool. Now, just put in the actual stats that it’s minimum anchoring distance from x is 1000km
The beacon is only in place to determine which structure can online (or use, can’t remember) he mining laser. It also prevents pilots from simply spamming refineries with lasers in order to deny access to the moon without some kind of engagement. The beacon actually makes the moon a location rather than this enormous area that needs to be covered properly. It would be extremely frustrating and problematic if remove an enemy refinery, plant your own, only to find the enemy onlined theirs a second or two before you did.
Also, structures can be transferred peacefully and wholly between corps without having to unanchor anything. So there is no need to rip rigs unless the new owner doesn’t want them.
Structure mechanics aside, this system is basically the same as POSes have always been. 1 mining facility per moon.
Has it been decided yet what the thresholds will be for the +5% and +10% moon goo ores? I’m assuming that the mineral ores follow the same distribution as mining anoms currently but the moon ones are probably more like ice belts? Or for simplicity are you going to harmonise the moon belts somehow?
POCO gantries are limited to where you can place them though. They have to be within x km of the “warp to 0” spot on that planet.
You’re assuming the ore field always appears at the same spot AND that the ore field will be far enough away that you can warp to it from the undock of the refinery. I expect it to be around 100km away so that miners can’t just stay aligned and instawarp to an on-grid tether when local goes up.
Aesthetic choice is low on CCP’s list alas. It’s really hard to build a multi-structure hub with insta/fast warps unless you string them all in a single line.
Assuming it’s like other upwell structures you can transfer it directly to another corp without unanchoring. It just needs somebody in the corp online with enough roles and in the same system as the structure. If you’re saying these structures are in functionally dead corps then how are you negotiating a price anyway? If you’re saying the corp has live players but they can’t be bothered to log in to convert a structure to ISK then that’s a different story. Transfer can be to any other corp in existence regardless of which alliance it is in or which alliance you are in.
All that said if you invested in the rigs then surely you’d want to charge for them when you sell the place? The advantage to the buyer over destruction is that he gets to buy it now rather than any savings from forcing somebody to firesale it or eat losses.
I guess the size of the doesn’t ores will change before the release, right? Because the variations on ISK/m3 well be critical for and model on how to run these things.
If you’re taking any number on sisi even remotely seriously, you’re insane. The numbers are multiples of “1337,” for fu ck’s sake.
no, we’re approaching the problem of transport volume differently (better) with moon ore
From the tweetfleet slack. Looks like the different volumes between any of the new ores are still just placeholder maybe.
The compositions are definitely all placeholders.
They never should warn people of the fact the SiSi value are placeholder. I really want to see people rage and cry when their investment turns out to be ■■■■ when the real value are in.
Are the “Fire!”/“Schedule” button final and in their intended location?
Could we a big red button something like this (excuse terrible PowerPoint mock-up) http://imgur.com/a/FDl35