Light Carrier

(Will Riraille) #41

In some ways I like the idea of a so-called light carrier… however the way I’d envision it is as being somewhere between a Porpoise and an Orca in size- unlike ‘proper’ capitals (and the Orca) it would be subject to the CD MJFG, but unlike a proper carrier it would have a very limited high slot rack, and probably at best have a mid/low slot count equal to the gun/missile laying T1 CBCs (IE, a total of up to 10 mid/low, probably divided as something like 3/7 Amarr, 4/6 Gallente, 5/5 Min, and 6/4 Caldari).

On top of that I’d say a Light Carrier should only really be able to launch a single squadron of Fighters… but, an interesting allowable option would be to also allow them to also launch a (limited-strength compared to a supercarrier) squadron of heavy fighters as an alternative.

Which is to say you have only one “deck” (not sure of the terminology/mechanics in reference to in-game functionality) for a squadron of fighters, but you can load either light or (understrength) heavy fighters into it.

However this may involve some different coding to what we currently have and if being able to pick between launching one squadron of either light or heavy fighters is impractical then I’d recommend just one squadron of lights and no option to launch support fighters or equip the NSA (since the NSA is also straight up stupid).

This would, IMO, be a somewhat interesting system and could provide another alternative to a quote-unquote miniaturized capital ship, a la bastion’d Marauders and sieged Dreads being close relatives.

As far as long vs short ranged light fighters I personally think that if SSFs were useful for more than just defanging other carriers and not totally worthless against everything else (and also if regular LF were not so massively useful against everything else…) then that would be a much simpler solution within the existing mechanics, and probably a more elegant one that meshes better with existing gameplay.

Also it’s my understanding that carrier micromanagement is already bonkers enough as is and adding yet another set of things to manage when you basically have to keep track of the equivalent of 3 different ships that must all be independently ordered around by the player is probably not a great idea.

(Wander Prian) #42

This thing started as too good and you’ve been constantly adding new capabilities to it. It’s an just overpowered now.

Just wanted to ask, what are its downsides? What is it bad at? What limitations does it have?

(Stitch Kaneland) #43

Leshak’s would be what you’d want to use to bash a structure in HS, as it has the highest subcap dps in the game. A light carrier isn’t needed here. Also, everyone and their mother is in a carrier or capitals. We don’t need more capital plague injected into the subcap meta, there is no need to create extra “progression” when everyone skips over battleships anyway.

Which a Light Carrier would do, just make battleships even less relevant.

So you want soul crushing lag/TiDi in high sec too? You realize if these were implemented and stronger than battleships, you’re going to have fleets of hundreds/thousands duking it out, with a swarm of fighters making the server wish it were dead, right? Even worse in highsec because of crimewatch/Concord adding additional calculations.

How is this different than showing up with any other well organized subcap group? Instead of 5 carriers, why not show up with 3-4 battleships and logi. Or 3-4 T3’s with RR. Or hell, 5 RR domi’s. I don’t see how this light carrier does something that any other well organized subcap comp can’t do.

(Solonius Rex) #44

Or, you know, you could just bring in 5 logi cruisers that would pretty much protect the freighter and prevent it from being ganked.

You’re basically looking for a solopwnmobile to protect you from those evil evil gankers who keep killing you because they have friends but you dont.

Yeah, no. If anything, light carriers will only be deployable in low and null.

(DrysonBennington) #45

Nah, a Light Carrier able to haul 75,000 m/3 of modules in its holds would allow gankers much more lucrative and costly targets while providing a risk factor to the ganking ships involved. A blob of 30 Cats should be allowed to warp in and simply destroy a freighter as their is no risk involved.

A Light Carrier or two or three would provide risk for the ganker which we all know the ganker in High Sec has complained for years about the Risk Free ISK earned in High Sec.

(Wander Prian) #46

How does a light carrier make ganking riskier? Because a new ship does not change crimewatch -mechanics, meaning it’s still the same rules.

(DrysonBennington) #47

A Light Carrier has weapon systems that will tear through a Catalyst, Thrasher and Stealth Bombers. The Light Carrier might have problems defeating a fleet of Talos or battleships and even so with a fleet of Catalysts, but the risks of performing the gank are not certain each and every time like they are now.

I know the spin that will be used too say that a gank on a freighter in High Sec has a 50/50 chance of failing each time but the stats showing successful ganks to mis-ganks will prove that the success of each gank is around 95%

Where is the risk versus rewards at?

With a 95% success rate you might as well call ganking in High Sec running a level three or four mission.

The Light Carrier will balance out the risk to rewards for the ganker as well as giving the cargo pilot more options to use if they are getting ganked instead of relying on strangers for help.

(HiddenPorpoise) #48

I’m one of those lunatics that has saved rando freighters before; I think you fundamentally don’t understand game mechanics or what makes ganks succeed or fail. If the ship has numbers someone can run those numbers to figure out exactly how to kill it. Even if it kills a ganker before Concord in on grid that will just be figured into how much the gank needs to work. The way to ruin a gank is to act as a wildcard: duel the target for a web, appear out of nowhere and kill someone as the gank starts, or even have the target dump their cargo to a fully cored DST. You can not ruin a gank using the ship that was scanned to know if they should gank it; they already know what they need to kill it.

Also you made it an armored freighter too now for reasons unclear.

(Wander Prian) #49

Before your carrier can lock the destroyers, they have already done their gank and CONCORD is arriving. If you don’t know how game-mechanics work, don’t suggest changes to them.

EDIT: I’m still waiting on the downside of this ship

(Salt Foambreaker) #50

No it doesn’t, a light carrier doesn’t have any weapons because it doesn’t exist and hopefully never will.

-1 SoloMobiles in High Sec.

(DrysonBennington) #51

You comment is irrelevant. Trying to erase something that you have no control over to make yourself feel like you have control over something…not even wrong.

Before your carrier can lock the destroyers, they have already done their gank and CONCORD is arriving. If you don’t know how game-mechanics work, don’t suggest changes to them.

The Light Carrier would be designed with small ship combat in mind up too battle cruisers. Therefore the lock times would be long without a Network Sensor Array fit in the high slot which would add a Scan Resolution bonus of 500% just like the module does for carriers.

Why do non-carrier pilots make comments on ships they have never flown before?

(Wander Prian) #52

Don’t assume. It only makes an ass of yourself. You just keep showing your lack of knowledge when it comes to the game-mechanics.

So your light carrier:
-Is about the size of a BC
-With as many slots as a BS
-Can use NSA
-Can be flown in highsec
-Has how many fighter-tubes?

I’m still waiting for the bad sides of this ship.

(DrysonBennington) #53

Don’t use a beaten down quote, it shows your lack of ingenuity.

  • Size is approximately the same as an Orca, increased drone bay to 1,000 m/3.
    Normal Combat Drones or Ascendancy Drones, drones that have their own operations
    screen, just like a carrier’s fighter control GUI has. Ascendancy Drones would be slightly
    smaller than carrier fighters and would come in the following types
    Long Range of all damage types plus TII that increases optimal range while lowering DPS
    Close Range of all damage types plus TII that increases tracking while lowering
    the overall velocity of each drone.
    Bomber medium to long range heavy drones that launch two Smart Bomb type missiles
    that pulses for three seconds delivering one of the four damage types before disintegrating.
    **Dual Damage" deals two kinds of damage at once based on the lowest resists of the ship being attacked. In order for this Ascendancy Drone to be used as special Network Array Module would need to be fit in a High Slot.

The Long and Close Range Drones would come with rockets as well in the same damage of the drones main guns.

  • Has three launcher tubes
    -Can be flown in all sectors of space from High to Null, Sleeper and Drifter Space.

The Light Carrier would also have bonuses for exploration modules. Relic and Data Analyzers and tractor beams to give Wormhole and Drifter explorers a new platform from which to base their operations from. Light Carriers would also increase PvP content in Wormhole space due to its lower mass allowing for more Light Carriers to mass in a system that is being attacked.

(Wander Prian) #54

I’m still waiting for what it is bad at. Right now this thing has more bonuses than a titan.

Also, there is nothing wrong with using a good quote, especially when it applies so well. You have shown your lack of knowledge when it comes to the game-mechanics of Eve as well as your very limited idea of how balancing in Eve works. You keep adding bonuses to a ship that is starting to look more like a highsec-titan than a light carrier. Next it will be able to shoot at anyone who is under -2.0 security status even in highsec without CONCORD interfering and be able to instantly lock up any target that is -1.0 or lower sec-status.

(DrysonBennington) #55

You are just making assumptions and idiocies because you don’t like new things.

So far the Light Carrier will:

  1. Have bonuses for exploration modules along with hacking bonuses for Relic and Data
    sites. Benefit - Light Carriers will allow high sec anomaly runners the ability to run Sleeper
    and Ghost site as well as being able to run the Pirate FOB sites and taking on Drifter ships
    and the eventuality of Triglavian ships coming into High, Low and Null.

  2. Deploy Light Carrier based short and long range along with bomber craft for PvP purposes
    Using the Smart Bomber in High Sec will result in a criminal flag if any neutrals or Pirates
    up to -4.99 are damaged.

  3. Haul cargo through High Sec while being able to defend itself from gankers.

  4. Provide a new type of game play for High Sec pilots who don’t want to go into Low or Null
    to become a carrier pilot.

  5. Provide a bridge for pilots wanting to fly a carrier that can be flown into Low and Null from
    High and vice versus.

  6. Create new demands for the mining and manufacturing industries.

  7. Provide PvE and PvP content.

  8. Provide new avenues of advancement for old players and Rookies alike.

  9. Provide a new ship for Incursion site runners to field.

  10. Forum Troll Tears.

(Wander Prian) #56

I have nothing against new things, when they are properly balanced and have a niche that needs to be filled.

This abomination of yours though is neither balanced or needed. It’s way too powerful and it is good at too many things and I haven’t even talked about the bonuses/slot layout you have chosen for this. You seem to want a ship that can do anything while being immune to other people’s ability to affect your gameplay. You want a trump-card that has very few counters in any situation, especially those that would put you in any danger of losing something.
CCP has limited some types of gameplay to only happen outside of highsec for a good reason: They are too good in the limited engagement-environment of high sec. One of those things is fighters and carriers. If you want to fly those, you need to grow a pair and move into low/null. Allowing this ship in the game, let alone in highsec, would be a very bad move. If you cannot understand why your ship is non-viable, you truly should go read up on some old devblogs where they talk about new ships that are added to the game.

(DrysonBennington) #57

Obviously you do have a thing against new things.

The Light Carrier is an idea that has been balanced perfectly for multiply roles for PvP, PvE and Exploration as well as Wormhole and Drifter Space.

You want a trump-card that has very few counters in any situation, especially those that would put you in any danger of losing something.
CCP has limited some types of gameplay to only happen outside of highsec for a good reason: They are too good in the limited engagement-environment of high sec. One of those things is fighters and carriers.

They are not too good in limited engagements of High Sec as having a Light Carrier in a corporation in High Sec would open up the corporation to be war decced.

It sounds to me like you are protecting the ganking mechanic of using cheap ships where the Light Carrier would cause the ganker to have too use larger ships or more cheap ships to destroy the Light Carrier.

Thus enters the Risk Versus Reward factor that gankers often times talk about as the reason that they gank or Risk Free ISK as they call it.

The Light Carrier does bring balance as it will necessitate the ganker spending more on their ships creating a greater demand for minerals and components to build their Talos or Battleship fleets with.

I have lived in Null and Low and I have lost a carrier to a three carrier cyno fleet. That was a limited engagement fiasco as you call it that took my carrier down in less than two minutes.

You don’t hear me whining or complaining about the carrier being too overpowered.

(DrysonBennington) #58

As you should have read the fighters have been replaced with Carrier Drones that are smaller and not as powerful as a carrier based fighter is.

Another bonus to the Light Carrier would be that it could be used to clear out the obnoxious NPC mining fleets in High Sec that eat through roid belts like CCP does through my paycheck for PLEX.

You know the NPC mining fleets that everyone complains about…<------- another excellent point for a High Sec Light Carrier.

Besides I can drop a cool $200 a week on this game if I wanted too.

Can you?

Money talks…so I suggest you get too stepping young man.

A Solution Too High Sec NPC Mining Fleets
(DrysonBennington) #59

Additional benefits / drawbacks to the High Sec Light Carrier

  • Can be used to rapidly clear out NPC mining fleets in High Sec

  • If the Light Carrier is part of a corporation that does not have Citadels then the Light Carrier makes the corporation War Eligible.

(Wander Prian) #60

So TL:DR: You lost 3 carriers in nullsec to hotdrops, couldn’t hack the costs (or was kicked out of the corp due to losing carriers and/or shitty attitude) and came back to highsec, but wanted to be able to use a similar ship with as few counters as possible. Got it.