Low class wormhole anomaly changes: a measured response

Some quick background - I’m a monoboxer who has been living in a C2 (HS/C3) for a few years now with my corp. During that time I’ve largely maintained my assets via solo ratting in our c3 static. I’ve run probably in the thousands of anomalies and signatures in fits of my own making, including navy battlecruisers, HACs, T3Cs, Command ships, and Maruaders. I’d like to think that this somewhat qualifies me to give feedback on the recent changes made to low-class combat anomalies.

The Good:
The rats try to be closer than they used to, and much more aggressively approach you if they’re further away. This fundamentally changes what used to be an extremely limiting fitting consideration: range. With most things being significantly closer lasers and autocannons can be much more competitive with missiles - meaning players can feel better about bringing ships that they actually like.

No more drone aggro, similar to the above point, drone boats used to be simply frustrating to fly in Jspace. In saying that I feel the need to defend this point since people are likely to raise concerns about automation. The mechanics of Jspace do more to naturally impede automation than drone aggro ever could, multiboxing the sites will very quickly drain a system and require scanning for a new one, the lack of local chat makes afk/botting ratters much easier to catch, and blue loot needs to be exported which in turn requires human input.

The EH…:
Split aggro - on paper this could enable a pair of new players to to run c3 sites with fairly low SP in like battlecruisers or whatever, have some fun in a wolf rayette and the like, and honestly? For anyone that does, that’s great for them and it’s a good change if it causes even a single person to undock when otherwise they wouldn’t. Also I fully expect that I’ll be able to drag new players out of station to be on grid with me while I rat. There is a problem here however that this change doesn’t address. The value return for a player’s time very rapidly erodes with the addition of more player ships in the site. My monoboxer self can run ~7 sites/hour, other people in my corp dual boxing the same fit can do ~9, the comparison when the ships are being flown by different people is awful - like you mean i go from getting 300m in blue loot, to 200 - purely because I wanted to be on grid with my buddy?

That one wave trigger change with the battleship. On one hand, I get it - I do, I really do - but like you already have to go to a third party source or memorise the triggers to not get surprised with more rats than you expected. It does make frontier recievers able to be run in cheaper fits and such - but like, eh?

The Bad
Not being able to interact with the scenery makes perches almost useless (as an aside this doesn’t actually slow down running Oruze constructs if you’re in a somewhat mobile fit). Setting up warp ins for marauder ratting signatures is much more tedious, as is catching a ratter who’s moved significantly from the warp in. People have to learn overview management somewhere - better while ratting than when in pvp.

The sheer size of the decor - some of these no-overview collidables span from ~ 20km from the warpin, all the way out to over 150km from the warpin. The same object! The only way to consistently maintain cloak when warping to the site is to go to the warpin ± 10km, which is of course no good if you’re trying to hunt since you might land on the MTU wreck field.

3 Likes

Not being able to interact with the scenery

The problem is that you can interact with them but not in any positive, productive and useful way. The only way you are forced to interact with is getting stuck in, getting decloaked by and bounce around invisible objects. This is CCP’s idea of cognitive overload reducing, more streamlined, better to understand gameplay approach.

3 Likes

except they still shoot drones

No, it is just ■■■■■■■■ and we all know it (my guess is even FC)

2 Likes

good summary.

I can confirm the same for a C3 basically. The sites are faster to run in basically any setup that uses close-range weapons, because most NPCs now come very close pretty soon. You need to fly around a lot less, drones need to fly around a lot less and you can use high-DPS short-range ammo almost the entire time.
However: I also noticed that more NPCs being closer a lot faster also put a bit more pressure on your tank. Not that much, but for fits that are already sewed with a hot needle it might get too hot.

Even looting is faster, since the wrecks all spawn a lot closer together and are tractored in faster by the MTU. At the moment, a ‘Packrat’ MTU can keep up with the killspeed of a Marauder in C3 sites, where it had 4-5 wrecks left before the patch. Which now means you have all the loot secured by the time your last bastion cycle ends and you don’t need to alternate between two MTUs (adding additional time to collect them later and adding risk of one being killed if hostiles show up).

Overall a nice buff in profitability.

For PvP on the other hand, those changes are awful. Less opportunities to catch someone having left MTUs in space, faster site-times means less time in space for the ratter, lots of huge background asteroids and stuff that are close to the combat area means it’s pure luck if you land close to one (or even inside) when you warp into the site from range. Not only decloaking you, but sometimes bumping you straight out of the area with somethousand m/s. Thats a total mess for hunters.

So while I like the new NPC behaviour, the design changes are horrible and need fixing, fast.

Is Ishtar King now for these sites instead of Praxis?

Depends on the Skills you have and the money you want to put on the table.

Can’t really compare a Newbro Meta-RHM Praxis with a full skilled HAC. I think a max-skilled and moderately blinged Praxis would still outperform a HAC, simply because you have much more slots available. Speaking of T2 Torps + lots of Application support in the Meds + T2 Heavy Drones + Deadspace-Tank. (1b+ ISK)

But thats not how a Praxis is usually used. People who have all the skills are better advised to either use a HAC/T3 for more safety (faster escape if nessessary) even if the killspeed is a bit lower, or a Marauder/FactionBS for maximum efficiency.

In the row of sub-BS ships, Isthar is not in the Top End, but very convenient. Cerberus, Zealot and even Muninn/Sacri will probably be faster and easier to tank, for the same price. If you are willing to use mutated- and/or ‘augmented’ Drones, it can compete.
Where the Ishtar truly excels is as second char to just assist another 700 DPS in drone Damage to your main char. A Dual-Ishtar Setup runs these sites very easy and if one controls the drones of the other, you have a 1400 DPS setup that still can warp off any time a new sig spawns or something bad appears on the Dscan.

For solo, the T3s absolutely outperform a HAC, Pulse-Legion, HAM-Tengu, Rail-Drone-Proteus and HAM-Loki all offer very good killspeeds, even very close together in performance now. If you are willing to risk Bastion Mode - nothing beats a Marauder. Vargur and Kronos might even beat Pala and Golem now that the NPCs all come crawling to ~15km. If I had to bet: #1 Kronos, #2 Vargur/Pala #3 Golem.

My personal favourite Setup would be a T3 + Eos. A Pulse-Legion eats no ammo and with Armor+Skirmishboosts from the Eos it can run on maxium damage/minium tank. And you don’t need to care for any drones, you have full DPS on the guns. The Combo deals a whopping 1600 DPS with very good application and can still warp out and get safe any time, the second account just conveniently following the first, not needing any attention during the site.
But any other T3 also works, for the Tengu/Logi (Shield) I’d probably use an Alligator as Droneship tho…

Good Insight, does anyone’s performance go down on these sites? I think they went over the top with the rocks. I don’t understand why they stopped targeting drones though, encourages more mindless afk behavior. They could have just slightly buffed the sites for income, I actually preferred the older sites.

Only those who had a thank so thinly above the incoming DPS, that the new more aggressive NPC behavior forces them to sacrifice a damage mod for more tank. Or people who tried to “snipe” the sites with some MJD/Fits… no idea. For every regular runner who can tank them, they should be more profitable now. Not that much, but noticable in the long run.

Why is that? I don’t understand this, maybe because I’m new…

You can’t see who is in the same solar system with you in a wormhole. You have no “local chat” that automatically displays all active chars in there.

And that means, if you don’t pay constant attention, hostiles can just see you without you seeing them. Which usually leads to your destruction pretty soon. Survival in JSpace (wormholes) relies on preparation, paying constant attention and reacting quickly.

NPCs not attacking drones any longer won’t make a difference, since pure Drone-Combos (Multibox-Ishtars, Gilas, Alligators etc…) all were already possible before the patch. As long as multiple player ships where in the site, with some EWAR (for example a Target Painter) and RemoteRepairs, they never targeted Drones anyway.

Ah ok thanks. Sounds like you might mean cov ops ships, then? I’ve done a fair bit of WH hacking and huffing, but not much ratting yet.

(Oh, and by “constant attention” I guess you mainly mean on the D-scanner?)

They can either warp on you in CovertOps ships or send a fast tackler that bubbles in your fleet of ratting ships and then normal Combat ships come after and kill you.

And yes, you need to watch Dscan, realize immediately if a new signature spawns (can be a wormhole with an active group behind) or something appears in the overview because it has decloaked right next to you.

AFK gameplay is rarely successful because of all that.

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My proposal was simple

if you enter through a normal stargate, you appear in Local because the gate network registers your presence; if you enter through a wormhole or filament, you bypass that infrastructure and shouldn’t show in Local until you interact with the system in some way. I suggested it because instant perfect intel is a huge reason nullsec so often turns into neutral appears, everyone docks, and content dies.

The response from nullbears was basically “f*** off back to wormhole space,” “we like the chill environment,” or “it’s always been this way.” And that attitude is probably one of the biggest reasons so many of nullsec’s problems have been allowed to grow

People defend the comfort of the current system, then complain about the stagnation it produces.

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I cleared the sleepers from a Forgotten Frontier Quarantine Outpost. Hoovered up the wrecks. Went back in to run the relic caches, but to my surprise, the site reset itself and the rats returned. Is this undocumented feature?