I’m not sure that someone who uncloaks on a Drake in a pilgrim with TD’s and a crap fit should talk. Stick to fleets and killing crap.
You’re welcome to post on your PVP toon at any time, assuming it exists 
I’m sure you’re also in the zkill top 100 for a ship, and also manage ship fitting doctrines for your organization.
Nice blackbird loss too, who told you to fit AB on that?
Point stands, telling a NEWBIE to focus on M14 before or during actually training up his first ship/weapon/play style skills is dumb.
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If we only had our EVE HERO couch subway to teach us how to do it.
DAMMIT CORE. Damn you all!
Edit: I meant coach, I’m an illiterate.
Couch works too I guess, sadly.
Doctrines I really hate this word, its as if eve is a static game and one fit just works against everything, also judging a fit in isolation seems weird to me. Have to know the circumstances as well, once some one laughed at me for fitting an active tank on my rail Raptor.
But that small active tank combined with the sig and mwd was enough to tank 20 condors and I proceeded to murder half of them before they killed me. Then got kaked out by intigo for not fitting enough types of ammo xD always someone judging
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Doctrines are about standardisation where FC know exactly what each clone soldier can do, where your spies already know what the other side will be using so you can counter fit beforehand and where the builders can supply the requires fits in bulk.
Outside clone soldier fleets and thus more solo or small gang stuff doctrines make little sense, you want to adjust your fits based on what you are running in to and if you’re looking for specific targets you tend to want to counter fit, even if the fit in normal situations makes very little sense.
Clone soldiers have their thinking done FOR them (people who do well in fleets but outright suck when caught solo), solo players need to do their own thinking. Rail Raptor is hilariously good fun and can work quite well, especially against people tend to think it sucks.
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The kinds of words that tell you that thinking for yourself is too hard/wrong and to just do what you’re told because daddy knows best.
If I want to fit my ship silly I don’t see what business anyone has to tell me it’s wrong.
What if I’m testing something? What if I’m using it to bait…?
" Nooo… You are to do as we tell you or you’re stupid blah blah…"
I’m glad those people aren’t in government, it’d be a tyranny.
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You can fit your ship however you like if you are flying solo. But if you are part of a fleet, then it is absolutely essential for the Fleet Commander to know that everyone is following doctrine. There’s no point you turning up in a ship that will only fire 16km if the fleet operation requires that the fleet be at 30km. There’s also no point fitting a ship that can’t keep up with the fleet. The FC needs to know that everyone can keep up, can deliver a specific DPS, has a specific level of tank, and so on. A fleet with 100 ’ I’ll fit however I damned well like’ people in it would be a disaster.
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Fair for the avg alliance, its different if the fc tells his people ok guys mininmum range is this minimum speed is this, we will be bringing in a bunch of ships and putting them up but if you want to refit it is up to you.
Some people can get a syndicate plate abyssal it and a whole new fit becomes possible because of the extra resources available.
I can understand from the logistics side thou especially if you are far out. But you can also scan down wh’s and bring your own stuff in.
As a side thing I had this friend once who’s character name started with an A so what he loved doing is going full bait fit with a whore gun and as soon as people got to him they got stuck for a bit and couldn’t take him down and they waste so much time.
But that’s not how it works in practice. The FC needs to know what tank people have, because that will affect the level of logistic support. Same for capacitor. In fact even the type of ammo used can be important, not just for range but for making sure you don’t run out of it. That is why doctrine ships are so specific.
Ganker fleets, for example, need to know exactly what DPS and range everyone delivers…as they’ll have worked out beforehand that X number of Catalysts or Thrashers are needed to take out a specific ship. If a fleet of 8 gankers needs everyone to have 600 DPS and you turn up in a ship that delivers only 300…the FC is not gonna be pleased afterwards to find out that the target was missed because you turned up in a ’ I’ll fit whatever I like’ ship.
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I mean obviously lol, the I’ll fit w.e I want is usually to try edge out better stats than what the doctrine is, not way worse xD
Or maybes its the other way around and some guy is always late to broadcast so he always fit’s a tiny bit more resi instead of damage. Where as a dead ship is a lot less dps.
but anyways we way off topic again.
and don’t hurt if everyone fire 100km ++ because that way no one will have to do hard things like approaching or keeping at range and that makes the real business of pressing F1 way more efficient
I guess I can understand becuase of lag no one can manual pilot at 1 move a minute, you will go crazy. I clicked but its not moving wonder if I need to click again hmm no let me wait. Nothing ok let me click ■■■■ it moved.
easier just to press f1 and orbit at that point and save your self a lot of frustration.
Exactly.
old days everyone anchor like 500 m of the FC or something , some just press approach and bump the F FC etc
align to … align to etc
nowadays the FC can control and warp the entire fleet , just have a big ass range and press F1
Lol what, I didn’t know that last time I was in a big fleet was 2013 I think xD people dont even click orbit anymore? Damn
fc can make all fleet approach , align etc
The fleets I FC (in most cases) are are that lenient because there’s no deeper objective beyond blowing stuff up. Anyone with a covert ops cloak can come along. We have a doctrine so people know what’s effective for what we’re doing, but they’re free to modify it within reason.
The pilots have a fair degree of freedom to fit and fly the ship as they want, with the caveat that they’re responsible for their own decisions and actions. Fit the wrong tank - struggle to get reps, if at all. Can’t keep up with the fleet - miss out on the action. Fly your ship too aggressively - you’re unlikely to get bailed out.
You’d be surprised how good people are about being sensible when they’re only there for their own enjoyment and they’re responsible for contributing effectively towards that. And how effective a more kitchen sink approach can be.
For srs business fights you get in eve doctrines are an unfortunate necessity for the reasons you state, but can certainly add to the enjoyment when there’s still a degree of pilot agency retained.
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Nope, not correct. Training up those skills to gain those few extra percent’s is definitely needed to make a competent fit.
Mining and Hauling are bottom of the barrel careers, just above them is running Hacking sites. Telling new players to do that is probably the main reason for poor player retention in this game.
As for Explorers, most are running combat sites like mission runners so yeah, definitely need those skills maxed.
Thanks…
Didn’t see this topic was PvP only. Also my point about the Cap is you won’t have any with minimal trained skills. And yeah right, lets tell em to fit up a bunch of Cap bat’s and booster mods so there won’t be any room for anything else.
PvE or PvP doesn’t matter. In fact those skills should come fully maxed with character creation, then new players can concentrate on career skills and actually start playing the game instead of spending time in station trying to fit a ship.
I didn’t give those skills that term, I believe CCP did that when they released Evelopedia, which was then copied and pasted into Uniwiki.
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