Cool thread but I would ask that you propose your own set of skills that you would recommend to the new players.
Don’t just complain, fix.
m
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Watching paint dry is more fun than mining. If I want to go to sleep, I’ll just go to bed. 
That being said, I did max my 2nd acct to lead mining fleets, (after she maxed out scouting/logi) and that was more fun than the actual mining. 3rd acct can mine everything max (after above maxing scout/logi) simply because I needed to put the sp somewhere and in eve, you simply never know and it’s always nice to have a backup plan.
But I never did train the 2nd one for the Rorq it being a fleet support ship for null. Something I never intended to do. So, can I mine? Yes. But I would more call it the expeditious removal of local resources in a controlled environment. Since having “something” cloaked nearby always adds spice to the game.
Miner my arse!
Good point!
That is the point. There is no overall set of “train this”. It depends on play style, faction and what that player decides sounds cool to him at that moment.
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I broke the Magic 14 into four subsets of skill plans, separating armor and shield for example (as someone pointed out, above)
But seriously what initial skill plan would you recommend for a hunter killer, for a person who really wants to get into PvP? Suggest it and I will add it to the recommendation skills that for use in Rookie Help Chat. I do spend a fair amount of time, there.
m
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What Mike doesn’t understand, is new players can think for themselves.
He treats them like infants, who need free handouts. The best thing for a new player is to figure out their skill tree THEMSELVES - rather than copying and pasting something that someone else spoon fed them.
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Seems to be avoiding the questian.
I wouldn’t. New players don’t need an initial skill plan.
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It was fun learning!
the whole hunter killer, enforcer concept skill plans are silly, they are made up constructs filled with skills that sometimes make very little sense and very often don’t really apply in actual use. What IS “enforcer” really and how does it differ per faction and ship, skill wise? They seem to be made by the sales department to try and sell expert systems, NOT to actually help newbies.
We HAVE a system that is well developed but underused (partly because it also has silly skills and recommendations): Mastery. Why not pick apart those skills so you weed out the silliness from those and then guide a player to that info page where they can just click mastery 1-5 (assuming no omega issues) for that ship, weapon or module which then fills the skill queue with the required skills. Have mastery 1 just be the technical requirement to use that ship or module and build mastery 2-5 from there.
Merlin mastery I → Caldari frigate 1 , small hybrid 1
Kestrel mastery I → Caldari frigate 1, light missiles 1
small shield booster mastery I → shield compensation 1
Small armor repairer mastery I → repair systems 1
So people can pick and choose, THEIR choices, on ships and the different modules. Singular skills might be overwhelming (then again we all made it work) but this "here’s a whole play style with all the skills you don’t even know what they’re for or which modules they apply to) is the other end of the spectrum, they’re both extreme options: one gives too much granularity in the beginning, the other gives pretty much none and forces to train skills the player might not even be interested in. The in between option (short skill plans per ship and modules with more granularity through mastery lvl choices) gives them just enough guidance but not so much it’s just hand holding without them learning from it.
Also, short skill plans aren’t depressing: some newbie clicks enforcer and is then locked in (from his perspective) for several days or even longer which tends to result in playing EVE OFFline: waiting for skills. With granularity and short skill plans you give them short term goals, stuff that completes in that play session perhaps even, they have something to look forward to and thus keeps them invested. You allow them to make meaningful choices instead of some LARPING overarching concept name that doesn’t actually exist.
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Thank you. That’s exactly how I feel.
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Actually, as a newbe myself, I agree. After choosing Caldari and looking into Magic 14, I had 2 thoughts: First - why on earth I need armor upgrades? Second - why would I block myself for over a month with skills that are completely useless for the activities I am able to do now? L1 and L2 missions are easy and I can’t even afford to fly something better than T1 frigs.
So, I switched to adjust my skill plans to the things I’d like to do when I get bored with my current activity. I look for a nice fit, check what I am lacking and copy the required skills to the skill plans.
The Magic 14 is there somwhere, but I broke it down into prioritizing those skills I find most useful for myself.
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Maybe point them towards the ingame suggested newbie skill plans?
I haven’t looked much into them, but I see that for example the ‘Minmatar Pirate’ is a nice short train into minmatar frigates with corresponding basic projectile gunning skills.
It puts a newbie into a short train towards skills that unlock new things to fly. Which I think is better than telling newbies to train some generalist support skills that have minor bonuses but unlock nothing and don’t really matter all that much to improve a newbies gameplay, because it will take time before their personal skill gets to a level that the difference between locking up ships a second faster starts to matter.
And if they wish to try exploration, there’s an exploration Minmatar (and other factions) skillplan as well, which starts to immediately unlock new gameplay rather than minor support skills that do not really affect a newbies gameplay until much later on.
There are as many ideal skill plans as there are individuals - everyone wants something slightly different, so there is no paint by numbers skill plan for anyone. New players need to learn to think for themselves, and nobody can do that for them.
Sometimes new ganker wannabes ask me for a skill plan, and I tell them if they can’t figure out what to train, then they’ve got no future in EvE. We need to stop coddling new players, because all that gets the community is a bunch of whiny crybabies.
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This disappointed me. Seems so off brand.
I figured you would be telling them a Aiko approved skill plan costs 1bill isk.
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That’s what I tell them after they pay.
Duh.
My bad. That’s much more like it.
Eve is full of threads where people who have not actually been noobs for over a decade retrospectively bootstrap a bunch of hindsight into wisdom for noobs. The trouble is that this hindsight perspective often takes things for granted that are not at all obvious for noobs. One has the irony that the most experienced people are the least able to grasp the noob mindset. Noobs need to understand what they are doing and why…and all too often advice from oldbies that has been gained through years of experience does not come with that understanding.
Tbh the skill plan itself is not really the issue with new players it is that to do anything they need at least a few lvl 3 skills, but at about 10 hours I think per lvl 3 that is a lot of time for a person trying things out for maybe 2 or 3 days before giving eve a skip.
I would love CCP to reduce lvls 1, 2 and 3 in exp required by maybe 3x then add that time onto lvl’s 4 and 5 so that new players can train a lot of lvl 3 skills and try out everything they want and then when they find something fun then start upgrading skills to 4 the plan itself is only if you already know what you want to do which new players probibly don’t.
Imagine a player being able to go through maybe 8 of those beginner plans within those 2 to 3 days they will much quicker find some part of eve they love. And then the longer investment afterwards would be fine because they would not have in the back of their mind the thought of O maybe training these skills is a waste because I might want to do something else.
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I think it comes down to philosophical differences.
Me? I believe in helping the newbros get started. Yes I did not have the same help when I started out . . . doesn’t matter. Said help is optional and if a new player wants to go it alone, the hard way? They can (although they cannot leave the rookie help channel for 30 days) I ask, here, for alternatives for the Magic 14 because I honestly am willing to provide the new players alternatives.
I am at the end of my CSM term so I will not be arguing these points with CCP over the next year. But I will still be playing, helping, making the occasional lesson vid. And probably still here in the forums.
m
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I still mad at you for not running again.
Nonetheless, it’s good to see you are not giving up on the EVE nublets.
Mr Epeen 
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