Or he’s just smart enough not to take the bait.
No, not really. The current mechanics suggest two paths:
- You see the hostiles coming 5, 10 even 15 jumps out. You dock up.
- If you have enough people go to 3, if not, stay docked.
- If you have enough people and can get a fleet organized to take them on you fight.
And 3 only happens in certain instances. CVA and Goons will form up, most others…nope. They’ll just turtle up.
You know obvious bait is unlikely to work.
See, you want to avoid determining if the player is there for yourself and want the Devs to do it for you. Sorry, but nope.
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How exactly can I determine if a cloaked player is there?
If that could happen, this thread wouldn’t exist.
I’m fine with people ignoring my bait… if I know they’re present to make the decision to take it or ignore it. The thing is I’m attempting to create that interaction… and it sucks when you do that for an hour and then log off with no luck… and come back on 6 hours later to find out the guy has been AFK cloaked the entire time and that hour was essentially the equivalent of attempting to interact with an imaginary person that only exists in your head.
I’m not really playing this game to pretend to interact with other players. But with AFK people… that’s what I get.
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I see 19 hulk kills in null in the past 2 days. 21 skiffs. 15 retrievers. 70 procurers. 8 mackinaws. 11 covetors.
I think people are catching and killing at least some of the carebearing miners.
You try to bait him. You look at when he gets kills on his KB. You look at his corp information via dotlan and/or in game. The latter 2 will give you and idea of his active TZ, the former will help give you an idea if he is AFK or not, combine them and you get an even better idea.
Granted you’ll never have perfect certainty…but you really shouldn’t.
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There you go again, looking at what can be seen and ignoring the unseen. How many of each of those ships got away?
And where have I said nobody is getting caught. The effect of local is to reduce content. How many of those procurer kills were people not watching local…who might have been looking at another screen, off getting something from the fridge, etc.?
It has long been acknowledged that players who are not looking at local get killed. But do see what is going on there…it is like local does not exist in those instances. If I am purposefully not looking at local it is essentially the same as if local was not there.
This really does not help your case.
So… you act like he is there and then end up trying to interact with an imaginary person.
Sorry… that’s the reason I’m wanting a timer. To not waste time trying to interact with an empty seat. Your answer seems to be “keep interacting with an empty seat”. I simply disagree that is a good answer. If someone can’t be bothered to click their mouse on their screen once every 30 minutes or so… I can’t fathom why they shouldn’t be logged off. They aren’t actually playing. I’m looking to play this multiplayer game… with players. Not with their unattended keyboard.
I said: " those residents can be caught and forced to fight."
You said: “No, not really”
I then proved they are in fact caught and forced to fight.
Now you’re switching to claiming that not enough of them are caught. About 150 in the last day and a half (just miners).
The fact is with local the hunter knows they’re there. Some may not be paying attention… and get killed. If you remove local you make it so maybe a few more will get caught when hunters find them… but you make it take a lot longer for hunters to find them. The fact is the guys who are attentive to local will probably be just as attentive to other intel sources… worst case D-scan and alliance intel-channels and if you add these intel structures then they’ll pay attention to that. You aren’t getting more inattentive miners. You’re just making it harder to find them.
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Your killboard speaks volumes about what you really want. Strawman arguments that don’t make sense won’t help you with that.
Except all you’ve proven is that there are people that are so lazy they can’t pay any attention to intel channels or local. If they would have, they wouldn’t have died. You know that to be true.
No offense, but the exact same statement is true even if local didn’t exist. If I’m aligned and hitting d-scan, I can warp any mining ship back to station as soon as I see an enemy ship on d-scan. Nobody would ever get caught if they were completely alert. The entire point of hunting is to catch people who aren’t paying attention. But to do that you have to know that they are present. And if you make determining if a player is even present in system take several minutes instead of several seconds, you are going to really hurt the effectiveness of those hunting.
You’re only going to catch the inattentive PvE player. That’s kind of the point.
As for the killboard… feel free to draw whatever conclusions from that you want. As you know everyone has one account in this game and nobody ever posts with any toon aside from their main.
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You are not entitled to certainty and you are not entitled to intel without effort. The Devs should not be helping you play the game beyond providing the game.
I can’t speak for Linus, but for me this is (part of) the reason why simply removing local is not the answer either.
To be honest, a hunter that needs several minutes to determine if anyone is in system with him, is so bad at the job that he really can’t be called a hunter.
Nah. The inattentive will take a glimpse at intel channels every now and then and take appropriate measures. We’re only catching the absolute morons that can’t even do that and those people won’t miss local in any way.
Feel free to provide more information. So far your posts align perfectly with what your killboard shows.
This isn’t about “entitlement”. That’s a silly argument. Why is he “entitled” to not be logged out for being AFK? The answer is… because that’s how the game works right now.
We’re discussing how the game should work though. You believe there should not be a log off timer. I believe there should.
My argument is that the game is a massively multiplayer game… which means that the purpose is having players interact with other players (thus “multiplayer”). Ensuring that a player is actually present fits in well with the “multiplayer” aspect of the game.
Your argument has become “You’re not entitled to interact with other players who are present. You must accept that you may be interacting with an unattended keyboard and LIKE IT.”
I like my argument better.
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Whatever you say gorp. Have fun fighting in Perimeter.
Yes, because they were not using local–i.e. local could not kill that content because they were not using it.
Local is the root problem here. It is a bad mechanic, IMO and you want to put another bad mechanic on top of it to nerf cloaks and thus indirectly buff local.
Really, where did I say that? My point was that local kills content, it does not enhance content contrary to your claims. Adding an AFK timer is unlikely to add content as people are simply going to wait to see if you are logged off or not. If not then you know they are ATK. You can try to bait them a that point, but again…obvious bait is obvious and is unlikely to result in “content”. Hunters want to catch people unawares, not people who are likely aware and have back up waiting nearby. Your AFK timer does not solve this problem and in fact might make it worse.
About the only time you’ll have some luck with baiting is in that window between when they show up and would be logged off. After that you get handed free intel: the guy is ATK, and you both know this. So now if you undock in your bait ship if you were him what would you think? Target or bait?
Yeah, roaming behavior would likely change without local (and assuming there is some structure based altnerative). So what? You assume that behavior won’t change and things will go to Hell in a hand basket. Stop assuming behavior is fixed. Change the game environment and the players will change their behavior, there is a tone of evidence of this.
There is some truth to this. We had a guy watching a couple of rorquals, and the ping went out and we flash formed a good sized fleet and started burning fast to the desto. Still took quite awhile and the guys just sat there basically waiting to die. Once we were a couple of jumps out the guy watching the rorquals engaged him along with our fast movers and we came in and killed them.
I am sure we were popping up on intel channels the whole way. And it was at least 20-30 mintues with a hostile in system.
Very foolish and imprudent.
You’ve had the chance to provide information to make me question the way I perceive your posts, but instead chose to prove me right.
Funny that you mention Perimeter, though. I got a invitation to “gatecamp” in Perimeter an hour ago. Who are you really? Are you perchance just here to troll me?
You absolutely want the Devs to take care of a problem and save you the effort of answering, even partially, the problem.
There is nothing in the game that ensures interaction. Interaction takes place because players decide to engage in such behavior. And I find your examples of how it would promote more interaction questionable at best.
When you bait somebody are you doing it alone?