Main AFK cloaky thread

(Teckos Pech) #262

Oh, and regarding this…no you aren’t entitled to that either. You are entitled to try. But if I do not want to interact with you and can avoid doing so…well good on me. That is the nature of a sandbox game.

(Lena Crews) #263

I guess the answer to the “am I alone” would be… sort of?

There’s a defense fleet available, but most of the time when I bait someone I’m hoping to lock them down with the bait and bring in an alt to destroy them. If I get blops dropped… well I’m probably going to die while calling for help. The HOPE is to take care of the dropper without needing that.

But I fail often.

As to the first part… if I had a way to be know a player was present (even a “AFK” symbol instead of a forced logoff) or to find any ship in space even if cloaked… I would not need the devs. But as the mechanics do not allow either of those things at the moment… YES, I do want the devs to change the mechanics in some way to make it possible for me to answer the problem.

Is that wrong?

(Lena Crews) #264

Teckos… if you are avoiding my attempt at baiting you (or my conversation attempts or my attempt to hunt you down or de-cloak you)… we ARE interacting. Your avoidance is interaction. A freighter who uses a webbing alt to avoid a high sec gank is interacting with those trying to gank him. Someone who is playing market games is interacting with others on the market. Your choice can be to ignore me… and that’s fine.

The point is you are there and playing the game. You may be completely frustrating me while doing so… but you are present. It’s fine if I lose the interaction, but if you aren’t at your keyboard then there is no interaction. It’s just me playing a computer game with an imaginary person.

(Teckos Pech) #265

If there is a defense fleet are you not interacting with other players?

Uncertainty in this game is a feature not a bug. You want to remove uncertainty, I do not.

Yes, because that is not the nature of the game, IMO. You are not entitled to certainty or perfect information. We want things to messy and uncertain. Why? That is what makes the game interesting and fun. When you know for sure the outcome of something it gets boring right quick. How many hours will you spend playing checkers against a computer? Not many because that is a solved game. Ideally we don’t want a solved game here. I see your suggestion as moving in that direction.

(Teckos Pech) #266

Do not confuse reacting with interacting. The freighter with the webber alt is reacting, not necessarily interacting. Further, interaction can take place without players being logged in.

If you show up in system and I dock up…are we interacting? Not in my opinion although I am reacting to you.

Or let me put it this way, if we define interacting so broadly you might run the risk of having it include being able to interact with people who are AFK cloaking.

(Lena Crews) #267
  1. There would be interaction if I were dropped and called the defense fleet for help. But not if I take care of the red myself or don’t get dropped on. I’m not coming up with some huge group plan to trap someone. I’m trying to kill the dropper on my own. If I get in over my head I’ll scream for help… but that would require the other guy to actually interact with me first.

  2. Uncertainty about what someone is doing is a feature. I don’t believe uncertainty about if someone is actually at his keyboard is a feature. You obviously disagree… but I’m stuck on the idea that a multi-player game should do something to ensure the player is there… not just that their account was logged in a few hours ago. It’s not multi-account gaming or multi-toon gaming. It’s multi-player gaming. The player is kind of required for that.

  3. Ensuring a player is present is not “perfect information”. It’s a basic concept of a multi-player game. I don’t think interacting with an empty chair is entertaining for anyone who’s trying to interact with an AFK character. It’s certainly not entertaining for the player of the AFK character… because they’re not PRESENT. I’m not sure who’s fun you’re trying to protect.

(Lena Crews) #268

Okay, now we’re entering a game of semantics.

Interaction is “reciprocal action”. It effectively means that both sides are taking an action based on each other. If you enter the system looking for a target… you took an action. As a target if I dock up… I took an action. That may not be the interaction YOU were looking for… but it is in fact interaction. I may come out in a superior ship after docking up. You may then run because of that. Still interaction even though in both cases the weaker party did nothing but run.

If you aren’t present… we can’t interact. Simply because you aren’t there to take an action in response to anything I might do. It’s just me playing against an imaginary opponent.

Let me put it to you this way… is there any difference in me warping off as a miner or ratter when you enter the system compared to doing the same when you enter the grid? In either case you’re the predator and I’m the prey… and I win if I get away. You win if I die. I don’t know how you wouldn’t see that as interaction.

I honestly don’t believe asking for the other toon to have a player operating it is all that huge an ask. It can be a cloaked camper where the operator is playing another account while keeping the camping one on his other screen for intel gathering… he just has to be there to click on the screen a couple of times an hour.

(Teckos Pech) #269

If that is your definition of interaction then why are you so upset with AFK cloaking. Just dock up and call it interaction and it becomes a good thing!

(Teckos Pech) #270

After 30 minutes or whatever the timer is, you have perfect knowledge of whether or not he is ATK or AFK, especially when that player is cloaked and in space.

(Lena Crews) #271

Because I’m not docking up? I’m attempting to create another action out of him… but I cannot if he is not present? For interaction to be possible… two individuals must be present. When he goes AFK… interaction is impossible.

I end up trying to interact with an empty seat.

(Lena Crews) #272

No you don’t. Logging off (or better yet logging off with a spy in system) is a pretty well documented tactic for trapping others in EVE. All you know is that he logged off. He very well could still be at his keyboard waiting to log back on and trap you at your ore anomaly or sitting at the MTU you left at a half completed site.

All the timer gives you is knowledge that the people who are logged in are at least somewhat active. It doesn’t tell you anything about those who are logged off in system.

(Sonya Corvinus) #273

I’m telling you a lot of people don’t do that in WHs. They are looking for decent fights. Have you ever lived in a WH?

(Teckos Pech) #274

I don’t think you know how a logon trap works. I am not going to logoff at a safe in system and and then wait a bit and log back in. I’ll pop up in local well before I enter emergency warp back to my safe, let alone time to actually see where you might be. I might try it if I had gotten to your anomaly just as you left, but you can easily side step that problem by simply going to another anomaly.

Logging off in this context, without some sort of scout already in system, is rather pointless.

And yes, after 30 minutes if I am still in system, you know with certainty I am ATK.

(Merin Ryskin) #275

About that AFK flag thing: what exactly is the difference between a player that is completely AFK for a few hours, and one who bumps their mouse every 29 minutes to avoid the AFK flag? Neither is going to take your bait, so why do you think that mandatory mouse bump actually improves the game experience?

(von Susla) #276

(Lena Crews) #277

Yes… that’s the point. To insure people are actually there to interact with. A player present for a multi-player game is kind of… the point.

(Lena Crews) #278

They are in the chair. They are paying attention enough to click on the screen. Because they’re present there is a chance (no matter how small) that they’ll see whatever action I’m taking and react in turn.

If the chair is empty, that chance becomes 0%. I’m just trying to interact with an empty seat or imaginary person.

(Lena Crews) #279

No, I play in WH’s as a tourist. But I’ve never been engaged by an equal ship in a wormhole either… I don’t see them coming in an Astero to attack my Astero… they come in T3C’s… often more than one. So while it may happen and I’m not saying it doesn’t… I also don’t see it as the norm unless my experience is the exception.

(Teckos Pech) #280

Thank you for finally admitting you want, in this regard at least, perfect information you do not have to work for.

(Teckos Pech) #281

If I have a timer so I can nudge my mouse of click on the screen every 29 minutes or whatever, I am not going to be taking any bait, so you still have a 0% chance.