Main AFK cloaky thread

(von Susla) #282

They are in the chair. They are paying attention enough to click on the screen. Because they’re present there is a chance (no matter how small) that they’ll see whatever action I’m taking and react in turn.

If the chair is empty, that chance becomes 0%. I’m just trying to interact with an empty seat or imaginary person.

If I have a timer so I can nudge my mouse of click on the screen every 29 minutes or whatever, I am not going to be taking any bait, so you still have a 0% chance.

And so it goes. The whole day long
The same silly song:

(Lena Crews) #283

You’re looking at the bait. You may not take it. But maybe you’re drunk and do something stupid. The fact you SEE it makes it possible… even if you refrain 999 times out of a thousand.

(Lena Crews) #284

This isn’t any more perfect information than knowing that someone docked in a station is logged in and docked in a station because you see them there. Or that seeing a ship on d-scan with your range set to 1 AU is perfect information that ship was within 1 AU and uncloaked when you hit D-scan.

You aren’t arguing against “perfect” information (though you’re using that word). You’re arguing against PASSIVE information.

To me I’m not sure why passive information (that someone is logged in) is any better or worse than passive disinformation (a red is in system but may be AFK). Isn’t the point to actually… play the game?

(Teckos Pech) #285

Nope, not even looking. The point of AFK camping is to induce a sense of complacency. “Oh, he didn’t take the bait, he must be AFK.” Eventually turning that into, “Don’t worry he is always AFK.” Once that attitude sets in then that is when the hunting starts.

Now if you say, “That is terribly boring.” Yes, it is. But fixing only one side of the issue will buff the other side. The current system is, IMO, balanced, but sub-optimal. Fixing “one side” creates imbalance and is still sub-optimal.

(Lena Crews) #286

The problem is it’s not boring. If it were boring, it would be fine. But since it’s AFK, you can do something entertaining while engaging in the activity. The intent of the timer is to make it boring… because you can’t go to the beach for the day, watch a football game or play your X-box. You have to click on the screen. You still have the ability to shut down the ratters. You just have to actually be present (and bored).

(Teckos Pech) #287

In these instances you have to do something. You have to dock up and look through the visitor list. Granted in many instances it is not a big deal, but it is not being done for you.

Sure it is in the context of using cloaked ships.

Suppose I pop up in local and you dock up. After 30 minutes with me still being there you know with certainty within the last 30 minutes I did something. Same is true 2 hours later. Same is true 3 hours later.

Further, there is nothing I can do to avoid this or get around it. It is clearly an enhancement to local. Local tells you quite a bit about the pilot and even the player.

The idea that cloaks allow for stealth is kind of a joke. If I have a covert ops cloak on the appropriate ship, I am not going to be stealth. As soon as I enter system you know my name, and once you click on my name you get my corp, alliance, history, etc. Taking that to google can tell you even more information. That you can’t find me on d-scan or with probes then tells you I am in a cloaked ship, and that gives you additional information as well since it narrows things down to a smaller subset of ships.

And you get alot of this handed to you on a silver platter and there is nothing I can do about it. I can’t attack local and render it inoperable. I can’t remove myself from it. Local showing everyone by default was an unfortunate decision. Making local even better with an auto-logoff timer…yeah, no. Just bad.

(Teckos Pech) #288

Please. People will adapt to this, and there are two routes.

  1. Use a program to double click in space so your ship starts flying in that direction.
  2. Stop camping.

Now you might say, “Bots are not allowed.” But the EULA actually says, “Bots are not allowed if they allow you to acquire in game resources (ISK, SP, items, minerals, etc.) at an accelerated rate relative to normal game play.” A bot to keep me logged in would not violate this. So we’d have to change the EULA. And even there, detecting said bot will likely be rather hard. You could say, “Oh, well just get those who are logged in for X amount of time.” Well good, now you’ll punish people who actually are there for amount of time and manually doing stuff. Great job, punish those not causing the actual problem.

The second outcome is a clear buff to ratting, mining and other activities in NS and makes local even better. Given that local is the root of the problem and that local reduces content, it is indeed going to make things more boring by reducing content even more. And you still won’t get to interact with these players because they won’t be there for you to interact with.

You sound like people advocating for price controls. Well, with the price capped then people will be better off with lower prices. Not really, because now instead of paying higher prices they will simply not have the good to purchase or the amount they want to purchase. So the costs are shifted from a higher price to simply going without or not enough.

So I don’t see the outcome you claim will obtain actually obtaining. I do not believe their will be more content.

(BTW, while there are two routes they are not mutually exclusive, some players might opt for 1 some for 2, but in either case I do not see your claims as coming true. I see your suggestion as nothing but an indirct improvement to local…which does not need improving.)

(Lena Crews) #289

I’m all for increasing the power of cloaks. I’d support the idea that a covert ops cloak would remove you from local using the same method that removes the ship from D-scan.

I’d still want a AFK timer even with that functionality. I don’t think you should be able to play the game without actually being present.

(Lena Crews) #290

You don’t seem to be bothering to respond to what I’m typing at this point.

I think that players should actually be present at their computer in a multiplayer game… not away from their keyboard for hours at a time.

I think removing local would hurt hunters more than local residents (who are ratting/mining/whatever).

I don’t really care about intel being free or perfect… I simply want changes that increase interaction (and I include fleeing from hunters a form of interaction… one where the rabbit wins if he’s successful).

You obviously feel differently.

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

(Linus Gorp) #291

Worked just fine for the past 15 years.

Because you don’t understand how hunting works.

(Teckos Pech) #292

Yes, because if local goes away I’d never use d-scan or probes…

(Merin Ryskin) #293

The difference between 0.0000000000001% and 0% is irrelevant. From your perspective you have no idea if the player is 99.999999% AFK, bumping the mouse every 29 minutes while doing something else, or ignoring your clumsy and obvious attempt at baiting them. That every-29-minutes mouse bump changes nothing from your point of view, it just satisfies some absurd and nitpicky demand that the chair be briefly occupied even if that occupation is just refreshing the AFK timer.

(Merin Ryskin) #294

Both of which are poor interface design right now. You can use them, yes, but having to use them to survey every system just to see if anyone is present is going to suck immensely. Local can be removed when d-scan is not such a tedious slog.

(Merin Ryskin) #295

Or I use a little creativity, build a physical device that sits on top of my mouse and bumps it every 29 minutes to refresh the AFK timer, and go off to the beach. It’s impossible for CCP to detect it, and not that difficult to build. But does the existence of this device next to my mouse while I am watching my football game improve your gameplay experience in any visible way? No.

(Jonah Gravenstein) #296

Rumble pack out of a game controller and a microcontroller, put it in a box and stick the mouse on top, job done.

(Sonya Corvinus) #297

how many times are you alone vs roaming through WHs with a small-mid sized gang looking for a decent fight?

(Lena Crews) #298

Yes… but you’d have to use them in every system rather than in ones where someone is present in local.

It might not impact you if you hunt in providence… but most of null is pretty darn empty. That’s a lot of wasted time warping to cover space in a system so your D-scan can cover it all and time spent scanning down ships that have no inhabitants only to not find anything and move on… which you could have done immediately with local.

From what I can tell… Providence and possibly some NPC null areas are the only places where removing local might help hunters rather than make it harder for them.

(Lena Crews) #299

Never. I roam solo. Sometimes in PvP capable ships. Sometimes in ships that are good only for scanning sites. In neither case have I ever been jumped by a ship that wasn’t superior. I’ve never gotten an Astero vs Astero or stratios vs stratios engagement started by my opponent.

Now have I jumped covert ops ships at a sight in an astero or stratios? Yeah. I’m not looking for an even fight either. I don’t blame WH people for this… it’s just life in EVE.

(Teckos Pech) #300

The horror…

There are other ways to see if people might be present.

(Lena Crews) #301

Please share.