The ingame map can show player-based activities… rats killed, ships lost, etc.
That said, it’s a very poor pittance compared to just looking in local and seeing if there’s someone to hunt or not.
As someone who enjoys roaming, I would hate to have to probe every system. If they took local away, I’d like to see dscan range doubled, sheerly for improving the speed at which you can find players to hunt.
CCp has already decided on this issue with the upcoming arrays, the first step to any invasion in nullsec is blanketing the enemy systems with cloaky campers, the power to teleport a fleet instantly at any time whenever you want on any target without a counter or warning (the “counters” most here present require your alliance to have an idle combat fleet 24/7, which is stupid and goes against the idea of alliances being able to be single timezone based like most null defense mechanics).
Besides, cloaky camping would not go away with no local, all the other intel that hunters have will still exist ie npcs killed, jumps in system and many more including zkill reports. Your request for a removal of local as an “equalizer” to ending cloaky camping is absolutely ridicioulous, but then again none of you are involved in maintaining sov, so I doubt you would understand. Hell, I wouldn’t have an issue with cloaky dudes getting buffed in another way, but you arent breaking the nullsec meta because you want wh style content in null, besides intel bots can use dscan instead (a pretty common intel tool that is used as a counter argument)
Yes, and there are those who have argued for a more balanced approach, removing local, make cloaks vulnerable to probes, and introducing the OA. But notice guys like Davian do not want to discuss that.
There is a long, long history here on this topic that goes back years. To pretend that the positions are remove local or nerf cloaks is itself juvenile.
Further, Davian refuses to acknowledge how the mechanics that work in regards to this issue, which is also juvenile.
In fact, like a bunch of toddlers the “nerf [AFK] cloak” side really do not mean it when they say they want “a means to scan down cloakers”. They know full well that AFK cloaking would stop 100% so there’d be nothing to scan. They want to reduce the risk to their preferred game play via Dev fiat.
There is the possibility of a serious discussion here, and I’d be fine having it. But it is not a discussion the other side want to have. They want to have their cake and eat it too. That is not balanced.
Teck… I have pointed out many issues that you tend to not respond to… instead removing one or two lines that you want to focus on (often with statements like: “you can’t name anyone in the thread who is arguing to just remove local”… when everyone can scroll to the top of the thread to see that exact thing happening.)
-No local (even with alternative intel methods like you’ve mentioned) makes hunting take more time. In heavily populated areas (like Providence) this may not matter to hunters. But in areas of null with 5-10 empty systems for every one with a player in it, this adds an additional step to the hunting process… determining if there is a player in the system to hunt.
-Removing of free intel will always more adversely impact those visiting a system… because the locals always have easier access to other (non-free) forms of intel.
My core difference is I believe that local increases interaction between players… and I view that as a good thing. I view successfully running away as interaction… it’s just one the hunter loses.
So what? No really, so what? Right now hunting is fast, but almost always fruitless. If hunting becomes more fruitful but takes longer it is not at all clear that this is a bad thing. In fact, it could be a good thing. I’d rather spend 20 minutes knowing I have a good chance of finding a target vs. 20 minutes with very little chance.
This is debatable as has been pointed out many, many, many times. If local and intel channels lets the players see hostiles coming 5, 10 or more jumps out, then you are quite simply wrong.
And you are wrong except in the most trivial sense. Looking at an avatar in local, maybe even smacking in local is the basest forms of interaction. That your target might have docked up when you were 3 jumps out is not really interaction except in the most trivial sense. Seriously, “I play a video game, where when I come into the same area as another player they will almost surely take steps to avoid meaningful interaction with me,” is not exactly a thrilling endorsement of the game. But hey, if that is what you like good for you.
Come, play Eve where you can make people dock up! Gee that sounds like fun.
Oh and regarding this point:
First off the guy literally could not name anyone and my point was that he wanted to argue against a caricature…a straw man. Yes, some advocate just removing local. Others do not. Devian did not want to engage in a meaningful discussion on the topic. He steadfastly refused to acknowledge the role local plays in this issue/problem. He realized what he was doing and that is why he refused.
so you’re saying “There’s a big meanie who is [posting on the forums] and [I don’t like the topic], but I [can’t stop the thread from happening] and I can’t even just go [read another thread]. I can’t [stop said thread from happening] and even though I know [exactly how the thread is going to go], I [will make a wall o’ text complaining and will try to troll the thread] because [I really want this conversation to stop happening]. CCP please stop the meanie from being able to [make a thread about a topic that I don’t want to be discussed even though it will probably amount to nothing]”…
I hope someone posts about this topic every hour until you (and all the other AFK cloaky supporters) stop reading them and just ignore the topic all together and go about your business, and I hope the second you do that the devs chime in and ask for input from players via that thread and decide to squash AFK cloaking and it ruins your week/month/life forever… think that would be some real poetic justice…