Also, it says a lot that you consider “I can’t solo farm risk-free in this perfectly optimized PvE fit at maximum theoretical ISK/hour” to be a degraded version of nullsec, rather than the default state that you should expect to exist at all times.
The gathering intel issue is not a red herring.
Sure, an active cloaker could evade, but there would be a chance that they would not. Their activity would not be risk free, they would face opposition. Random things happen, it’s not always the best case scenario every time.
The Titan thing is symptomatic of a bad module. Just as it should be possible to hunt one down, it should be possible it could use a cloak to evade or at least buy time. It should not be 100% one way or the other, but rather a contest.
It’s nearly impossible to solo farm in null sec. Most alliances will kick you out if you are not a member. If you are a member and using the space with their permission then you aren’t really solo. I don’t know of anyone who holds Sov with just a single character.
The best that space can be is it’s potential value. Anything that cuts that value is by definition a devaluation. You want to pigeonhole the tactics your enemies can use so that you can devalue their space without risk to yourself. You are the weak and pathetic whiner you complain about.
There is no chance that they would not evade. Talking about an active intel ship failing to evade is like considering the possible use of the self destruct button. Yes, it could in theory happen, but in practice it won’t.
The Titan thing is symptomatic of a bad module. Just as it should be possible to hunt one down, it should be possible it could use a cloak to evade or at least buy time. It should not be 100% one way or the other, but rather a contest.
No, it is not symptomatic at all. The issue with the titan is one specific to supercaps: the intent to use “you can’t dock this thing” as a balance mechanic, forcing the owner to actively protect it at all times and limiting its use to large alliances that can afford to create 23/7 defenses for their supercap parking lots. The ability to use a cloak to bypass this balance mechanic creates issues that do not exist with, say, putting a cloak on a T1 battleship.
It’s nearly impossible to solo farm in null sec. Most alliances will kick you out if you are not a member. If you are a member and using the space with their permission then you aren’t really solo. I don’t know of anyone who holds Sov with just a single character.
Stop pretending to be ignorant. You know perfectly well that “solo farming” refers to flying alone and doing PvE content by yourself, especially in the context of your objection to “degrading” space by forcing the use of standing fleets.
The best that space can be is it’s potential value. Anything that cuts that value is by definition a devaluation. You want to pigeonhole the tactics your enemies can use so that you can devalue their space without risk to yourself. You are the weak and pathetic whiner you complain about.
There you go, demonstrating my point quite nicely. You assume that the theoretical maximum value is the default, and anything less is degrading the space. The reality is that the “degraded” state is the default, and the theoretical maximum you have calculated by only considering a small section of the game mechanics is an unachievable number that does not exist in practice. It’s like calculating the theoretical maximum killmails per hour you can obtain based on the assumption that every target you encounter self destructs as soon as you press F1 on them, and then complaining that they can “degrade” your killmails per hour by not self destructing.
And, again, AFK cloaking does not force any tactics because those tactics are already being used to counter other things. The same PvP fits and standing fleets that remove the threat of an AFK cloaker also remove the threat of interceptor scouts jumping in and rushing the PvE sites.
By your ‘logic’, there would be no conflict drivers in EVE.
We just simply should not strive for more than whatever value you decide something should be worth.
There’s no point in owning or defending space, no point in ever acquiring materials at all beyond a simple subsistence level to replace losses.
Any activity that isn’t pushing F1 or exploding is simply not part of the game.
Of course, you are wrong, but that’s because you think like a psychopath.
Maximum Value is just that, the maximum. Not the default. It’s what you should be working toward. It’s meant to be a conflict driver so that we aren’t just a bunch of toddlers bopping eachother pointlessly over the head.
When you say the maximum is unattainable you short circuit the entire game. You remove all context from why we fight at all. You may as well remove every hull from the game but newbie frigates and civilian modules, because there should never be a way to aquire anything else.
Nonsense. The achievable value is less than the maximum theoretical ISK/hour you can calculate while ignoring all other factors, but it is still greater than the value of allowing your enemies to win. Owning and defending space accomplishes these goals. Mining and building ships/stations/etc accomplishes these goals. The fact that you can not accomplish some theoretical maximum does not mean you settle for nothing.
When you say the maximum is unattainable you short circuit the entire game. You remove all context from why we fight at all.
Nonsense. You can calculate a maximum theoretical ISK/hour that you could obtain by playing 23/7, but obviously that isn’t achievable because you can’t play 23/7 (at least without botting). Does the fact that it is unachievable keep you from fighting and finding value in the game? Of course not. Despite the fact that you have to sleep/work/etc instead of playing EVE 23/7 you still play.
This is an old issue, one that has been discussed many times, and it did seem that CCP was going to do something about it, but it appears to have fallen off the priority cliff.
Cloaked scouting in low-sec is bad for the game. It most affects small corps and low sp characters who are unable to venture into low-sec space without running into the unavoidable cloaked scouts.
It should be noted that this isn’t quite the same as say, cloaked camping, these characters aren’t hunters lying in wait for prey, they are most often afk, and most often using some kind of automated reporting method to post information to private corporation web pages. If they are using automated d-scan reporting, it’s also illegal.
Many “fixes” have been suggested, a very simple one would be to grant active combat scanning with probes the ability to locate cloaked ships. Another suggestion from a corp mate was a tweak on that idea which was to suggest that after being cloaked for a certain amount of time, say 20 minutes, your cloaking device would begin to leak radiation, which would then make it scannable using active combat probe scanning.
Whatever solution is chosen, the root of the problem is that this is an activity which has serious in game tactical and strategic consequences, about which players can do absolutely nothing. We just had an announcement from CCP about botting, well this is a related issue which has been discussed, and for which action has been promised for a very long time, and it is past time that those promises were kept.
Nope, -1
I don’t think cloaked spies are an issue, in fact I think they are a fundamental part of the game. No fix is needed.
2 Likes
If only there was some dedicated thread for discussing cloaky stuff. @ISD_Buldath ?
InB4 thread gets locked.
Cloaking is not the problem, Local telling you there is someone spying on you, is.
2 Likes
Heh… first time I see someone complaining about afk-cloakers in low sec… In my experience:
- Yes, people will post cloaky alt scouts on gates
- They don’t use automated software for this, it’s just an alt account positioned on their monitor so they can see local and overview while playing their main(s)
- No, nobody thinks this is a problem, it’s generally accepted practice
Such scouts are vital if you want to box in a potentially juicy target. I would not say this discourages new players, these people are not interested in a venture or T1 scanning frig, they’re hunting bigger game.
2 Likes
For the 1000th time, cloaking is not a problem unless you are a whiny lil bitch.
Can we pleasee move this doscussion to the main thread where the other 999 whiny lil bitches whine about how cloaks are affecting their ability to (insert AFK ratting, botting, or rorqual mining).
4 Likes
This is just so not an issue. There are plenty of empty systems out in lowsec. There are also third party tools such as https://localthreat.xyz/ or eve overmind that basically tell you if anyone in local is a threat.
There’s also exploration sites and missions in lowsec, most of which have gates. Gates protecc you from cloaky gankers because it decloaks them when they pop in on you, and they have to scan you with probes which can be seen with D scan.
The only way cloaky campers are an issue in lowsec is if you’re doing anomalies, and if that’s the case, why are you doing anomalies when there’s all this better PVE to be had in lowsec? The only anomaly worth doing is besieged sites, which you can do when the system is empty.
I fly solo in lowsec and absolutely thrive. So to put it simply: Git Gud.
Edit This post was moved from a thread about cloaked scouts in lowsec
1 Like
AFK cloaking is broken, not cloaking itself. It’s absolutely ridiculous, from a gameplay perspective, that a person can have a character sit cloaked 23/7 with no cost. (Not counting subscription)
Why not introduce a fuel requirement for cloaking devices? We have plenty of next to worthless ice products that could be used.
And/or make it so that warping generates enough power to activate the cloaking device so that covert ops ships can warp cloaked without fuel but if the ship sits or cruises around on grid for something like a minute it will decloak unless it starts spending fuel to keep the device running .
Fix Eve’s currently oldest broken mechanic, please.
1 Like
The intel provided by local chat is broken, not the ability to chat itself. It’s absolutely ridiculous, from a gameplay perspective, that a person can have free and perfect intel on hostiles in their system 23/7 with no cost.
Fix Eve’s currently oldest broken mechanic, please.
3 Likes
Care to support that logically?
Nonsense.
The point isn’t that you can’t really make the maximum. The point is that you can’t even try. It’s meant to be a conflict driver. You should be fighting for that maximum, and simply writing off an invulnerable hostile in your system as the cost of doing business and compromising fits and bringing in extra people to passively without conflict raise the bar of them attacking short circuits the point of the entire game.
Conversely, if you don’t want your chosen opponent making that maximum then you should be fighting to prevent it, not sitting under a cloak passively without conflict raising the bar of them doing their activities.
In Merinworld you don’t strive for better than you have, you just do the bare minimum and bop eachother over the head mindlessly because you can’t even conceive of anyone doing anything else without being human garbage.
And you don’t think that this is an activity that deserves to be opposed, rather than carried out in utter safety?
Again, you don’t think someone spying on you is something you might deserve a chance to oppose rather than something they do from utter safety?
■■■■■■■ RMTers.