Once again: rejecting your stupid ideas (and yes, making cloaked ships show up on d-scan so you can always see one coming long before it can catch you is a stupid idea) does not mean rejecting all ideas. It just means your ideas are terrible and based on ignorant statements like “people don’t spam d-scan constantly in PvP”.
I guess the AFK cloak whiners would still be screwed if the AFK cloaker was in a Rook. Those don’t even show up on D-Scan anyway, cloaked or not…
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You aren’t able to nullify anything, at all. You can’t keep people out, cynos and wormholes are a thing.
You can’t keep people safe unless you dock (or get in a Pos…it’s all pretty much the same). If they dock, they are not a hunter’s problem as they have left the play area.
So what danger is nullified, exactly? Targets are not forced to stay in space and engage in play that they don’t find fun and you do? Targets not in space with you can’t die under your guns in particular?
Null Sec isn’t safe, no matter how much people whine and snivel about local. As soon as you talk about getting rid of it and replacing it with intelligence that takes effort, they whine 3x as hard despite being just as safe as before if they decide to use even a modicum of intelligence.
You have absolute morons like Merin whining all about how it’s impossible to catch an active pilot even without a cloak shrieking in terror at the thought she might not be 100% safe if they were adjusted in any way…and then having the temerity to call people who just want a chance to engage the other guy before he’s ready with his hotdrop weak.
You don’t hunt them, you go out and rat, mine, etc. If they drop you then you kill them and MAKE THEM GO AWAY.
Becasuse any cruiser class ship other than a force recon will destroy a force recon on its own.
If a cloaked ship didn’t show up in local but did show up on d-scan…not sure you’d like that Mike.
Because you don’t put danger on the cloaked ship. Once it decloaks that is when you call in your buddies. Light the cyno, etc. But you won’t undock even if you could scan them down.
Yep, I engaged a procurer and had to bail, it was well fit and his drones were pretty damn rough on my ship.
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[quote=“Teckos_Pech, post:3377, topic:4731”]
You don’t hunt them, you go out and rat, mine, etc. If they drop you then you kill them and MAKE THEM GO AWAY.[/quote]
Sure. In your ships that are unsuited for combat, at a time of the cloakers choosing when his buddies are all ready to go. See, that’s called consensual PvP. Where’s the non-consensual pvp the cloaker is supposed to be exposed to every millisecond they are operating in null? Why is this need for non-consensual pvp one sided?
So? fit a cyno, fleet up, stay on coms, be ready at all times… Haven’t we covered that the only way to operate in null is with an entire alliance on standby to support you at all times, or was that only for your targets?
Why? You have always had my participation in the discussion attributed to the wrong motives. I don’t care about null, local, farming, etc… I care about the insane logical inconsistency of the pro-cloak stance. I would be fine with the circumstances I describe, with the caveat that I think Dscan is an asinine mechanic. However, I will take not looking hard enough being my fault over the enemy is just immune until the second he strikes.
I’m sorry, I thought we were discussing EVE, a game with Non-consensual PvP for all at it’s core.
Yeah, everyone does something bone headed every once in a while. It’s still completely in the choice of the cloaker to engage or not, with nearly every scrap of information possible at your fingertips when you made the decision.
What if someone with max standing with a locator agent could get a bookmark for the target pilot’s location at the moment in time when the bookmark is created, if the target pilot is logged in and undocked? It would take effort on the hunter’s part to try to hunt a cloaker, yet not give total immunity to someone hanging out in one place all day. Since the agents still can’t see into wormholes it still keeps that area exciting as always. Just a thought.
You seem to think that all of Eve should be Null Sec space, with no stations to dock in, nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. It should just be a big arena full of ships that log in and shoot at each other all day long.
There are tactics and strategies to war. And one approach is hiding from your enemy until you’re ready to strike. Now, do you think Sun Tzu would whine and cry like a little ■■■■■ on the forums for 3287 posts? Or do you think he’d get the ■■■■ over himself and figure out a way to fight back.
If you think there’s a Boogeyman hiding in the darkness, then bring your own Boogeymen. If a T3 decloaks and tries to light you up, then your fleet of friends in their T3s and Black Ops drop cloak and kill him right back.
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No, the danger that is nullified is the danger that they can die under anyone’s guns. Forget about the details of which particular player they don’t interact with and ask what the chances of a competent player dying are, in the absence of bugs/lag spikes/etc. If you PvE farm for 10 hours? Zero. 100 hours? Zero. 1,000 hours? Zero. No matter how much you farm you are never going to lose a ship, the worst that can happen to you is that you may be forced to temporarily pause your farming. And that is not acceptable risk for the highest rewards in the game.
You have absolute morons like Merin whining all about how it’s impossible to catch an active pilot even without a cloak shrieking in terror at the thought she might not be 100% safe if they were adjusted in any way…
No, you just stubbornly refuse to pay attention to what people are actually saying. I am not concerned about safety because your proposed changes do not impact the safety of a cloaked ship in any way. A cloaked ship will either be:
- Active and able to evade, in which case it is trivially easy to avoid being caught by warping to new safespots faster than the searching player(s) can find it.
or
- AFK and not logged in.
So, if safety is not changed, what is changed? The ability to successfully attack farmers. Your proposals would have two effects:
-
Removing the ability to stay logged in would make local a more accurate intel tool, vastly increasing farmer safety by ensuring that they are always aware if a threat is active with plenty of advance warning to dock.
-
Allowing cloaked ships to be visible on d-scan and/or probes allows farmers to maintain a constant scan that will reveal the presence of a threat before it can get within attack range. If you set a 5AU scan at all times you will be in warp to safety long before the cloaked ship can reach you. You won’t be able to get an exact position on the cloaked ship, but who cares. Merely revealing its presence provides effectively 100% safety. In fact, RMT bots will likely be able to automate this function much like they automate warping back to station and docking if a potential threat enters local.
So that’s zero impact on the safety of a cloaked ship, zero increase in PvP, and the primary group to benefit is RMT botters (and renter trash that might as well be RMT bots). Your agenda here is clear.
and then having the temerity to call people who just want a chance to engage the other guy before he’s ready with his hotdrop weak.
You have zero chance of engaging the other guy before he’s ready, because he can always warp to new safespots faster than you can track him. What you are actually asking for is to grant RMT bots near-immunity to being hotdropped by giving them a clear and accurate “DOCK NOW” warning.
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Don’t be a spoiled kid, your parents should have told you don’t always get what you want.
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Ya but the thing is they didn’t.
When there is a cloaky in system you switch to a PvP fit ship, preferably with some bodies in system as well. I was once hunting and found a gnosis in an anomaly. I engaged him and in the time it took me to kill him if he had been on comms and had at least one buddy in system I’d have to disengage and bugger off. But he didn’t and likely wasn’t so he died, then I buggered off.
Nonsense. This is your response to everything. You are always beaten. You always lose because you defeat yourself every time.
The truth is that some cloaky hunters fit a cyno others do not. Assuming you are always going to lose pretty much assures that you are going to lose because you won’t undock.
So everyone is right when they say, “You won’t undock…”
You defeat yourself Mike. Every. Single. Time.
Sorry Mike your problem is you are self-defeating.
Yes, cloaks give the player using them the advantage of initiative, but they are disadvantaged in terms of DPS, tank, etc. This is also most likely why they can fit the covert cyno. CCP clearly wants players to be able to infiltrate hostile space and make life there uncertain for them. And it is up to you to deal with that uncertainty…not crying about it to CCP.
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Mike_Voidstar: I want to make them … because pvp non-consensual …
Duo Roman: if he (consensual) … you can …
von Susla: Duo, you are dyslexic
Duo Roman: You don’t always get what you want
Duo, you are right, I want people to be able to read and understand, it’s too much.
Just make it cost a fuel type.
- Give certain ships a decrease amount of fuel costs
- Adding a fuel type helps the market and people make isk
- Cargo hold will limit the amount of time the person can be afk.
This threat figuratively gives me brain cancer. It’s the same non-sense ■■■■■■■■ drivel, crying and lies as we had 5 years ago. Hell even the “ideas” are the exact same.
Makes me wonder why you’re still here arguing, Teckos. It’s not like it’s going to get anywhere, because all they do is make up ■■■■■■■■ and spread lies, while ignoring the actual facts. I’d be surprised if a CCP guy other than Falcon actually read a single post in this thread, let alone would ever consider any of the ■■■■■■■■ as feedback.
I think people rebut the ideas proposed here on the off chance a CCP bod stumbles through here by accident and thinks ‘Hey, that looks superficially like a good idea…’.
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Ditto.
I don’t expect to convince Mike. I do not want his commentary and that of others who advocate simply nerfing cloaks to go unchallenged. It is true that CCP has not seen any need to change cloaks, and hopefully that will remain the case, but as people come and go that could change. Attitudes and beliefs to change and evolve over time in organizations.
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Ya’rr either a liar or completely delusional. Ya behaviour only serves those who wanna keep this up and no one else, ‘cause no one but the few jerks give a ■■■■. If ya weren’t actually HELPIN’ ‘EM KEEPIN’ THIS ■■■■ UP then the whole fuckin’topic wouldn’t get even a quarter of attention.
All ya’rr doin’ is’ supportin’ their cause and nothin’ else. Don’t believe this guy, @Linus_Gorp.
Yeah, because reasonable counterpoints have always stopped CCP from introducing absolute ■■■■ and turning EVE into a casual themepark WoW clone, one patch at a time.
EVE wouldn’t be such a shitfest if that were true. You’re only wasting your time and brain cells here. As long as people like Fozzie and Falcon stay with CCP and have a say in cloak change discussions, we don’t have to waste our time here with that trash. And when people like Fozzie and Falcon leave or don’t have a say, well, then all hope is lost anyway and they’ll introduce something that benefits RMTers and renter trash the most, no matter how good the arguments you’re presenting here.
This thread is only good for a braincell-killing circle-jerk with pathological liars and RMT trash. It’s a waste of time otherwise.
The good news is that CCP has been so firm on the issue, there is too much face at stake to just give in and nerf cloaks at this point to placate those deeply craving a way to make themselves perfectly safe. So much so, it makes posts like Myrradah’s a few back proposing an obvious, oft-repeated suggestion to just nerf cloaks both make you want to laugh, and bang your head against the wall.
CCP may address AFK cloaking in the future to change the mechanic and make it less frustrating for the unimaginative, but it will be with comprehensive reform of both cloaking and local mechanics. I don’t know how many times this needs to be said. I guess one more.
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