There is no incentive to fix the Prototype Cloaking Device. CCP needs to ELIMINATE THIS ITEM from the MENU. At least take it away until a new improved NERFED version can be developed. As noted in this (and many many prior threads for over 10 years), there are MANY ways to nerf the prototype cloak and encourage PvP content.
In the meantime, just kill the Item. Once it is gone, perhaps there will be some incentive to NERF IT (err… i mean FIX IT). After all, you can’t PvP against something you can’t target… and you can’t target something you can’t see - particularly if it’s AFK and invisible most all the time.
Explain to me how “AFK Cloaking” is considered griefing? If they’re truly “Away From Keyboard” then they literally cannot do anything to you. The only thing griefing you is your own paranoia.
And if they are not “Away From Keyboard” then they’re playing the game. They’re spying on you, and spying is allowed.
The solution isn’t to make Low/Null Care Bears feel safe when they undock to go mining or ratting. The solution is to make Low/Null Care Bears suck it up and accept the fact that you chose to live in dangerous space, and you might need to cover your own ass. Bring backup. Watch out for ambushes.
The fix is to take away Local, so you don’t know for an absolute fact that there’s someone out there potentially watching you. You should just assume that space is dangerous, and plan accordingly.
I don’t think I need to explain cloaky campers so my suggested fix:
Tachyon System Emitter, can be fitted to Fortizars and above only, it saturates a system with tachyon particles that “stick” onto cloaked systems. Ships remaining in cloak in a tachyon emitter system build up a “saturation” timer. When this timer hits 60 minutes activation of a cloak becomes impossible and any active cloak is deactivated. Note this timer only increases while a ship is cloaked, uncloaking stops the timer from accumulating however it does not clear it. To clear the timer you can either jump to a non tacyon saturated system for 10 minutes of active login (ie timer will reverse at 6x speed) or tether. Tethering instantly clears the timer during the repair process.
Logging off does not clear this timer only the above mechanisms will. This pretty much only impacts cloaky AFK campers. The above system cuts both ways, no friendly or unfriendly distinction in a saturated system.
This impacts everyone in WH’s, hunters and hunted alike. The problem is not with cloaks, it is with local being perfect intel. If local stops being perfect intel, afk-cloaking will instantly stop as there will be no point.
There is absolutely no need change anything to do with cloaking (the majority of uses require an ATK player), merely local (which CCP have stated shouldn’t be a perfect intel tool), and maybe cyno-cloak fits.
And the fact that this thread is 3300 posts long… And it’s the 3rd generation of this thread, b/c the ones on the old forums were just as long all those years ago… Proves that CCP has no intention of “nerfing” Cloaks. Of course, it would appear they have no intentions of “nerfing” Local either.
So basically, they love the tears these Null Sec crybabies shed. “Oh noes, there’s a boogeyman in my lawless space!” =)
The first one didn’t have a thread like this and the 2nd forum only got its afk cloaky thread in early 2015. So this is indeed the 2nd main cloaky thread. What we had until then were collection threads like Teckos’ where all the recurring stupid ideas were linked together… Go through that list and you’ll see the whiners in here post the exact same ideas that were already shot down 10 years ago.
CCP I have the solution to afk cloaky camping. Don’t change anything on the side of the cloaked ship instead give us a module or new structure that sends out a ping kind of like finding a submarine. Make it like scan probes but they can not be detected by the cloaked ship the cloaked ship would have no way of knowing if someone was looking for them other than seeing that someone is in the structure. This way everyone is happy the camper can stay cloaked indefinitely but they cannot be afk for to long or someone in the structure could scan them down warp a ship to them and then decloak them and kill the camper. I’m sure the player that is cloaking will just have his ship aligned which will make it hard to ever decloak someone if this becomes the case I would say that maybe all ships speeds should be reduced or that the player who is warping to the cloaked ship will need a special module that would decloak them with in a specified distance. This will also give a chance to decloak them on gate camps. I’m sure I have missed lots but the playing field needs to me leveled, there are those who abuse the cloak AFK bull crap.
Alright man, I’m not sure if you remember thing’s I’ve stated in the past. But to recap, I’ve always said covert cloaks need a counter as they’re the only offensive module that has no counters once they’ve escaped a gate camp. Blaming local is bull and simply lazy as it’s a tool used by both parties and offers no one side a larger advantage than the other (local is not intel channels). And requiring the monitoring and control of all systems within an 8ly range and 23/7 gatecamps is unacceptable. The line between game and job becomes blurred the more you expect of either party.
I’m holding out hope that the observatory array will grant both parties some counter play. Giving one side the ability to loop/delay local. While the other party will have the ability to disable or allow for probing cloaked targets within a system with proper upgrades.
At the end of the day both features (local and cloak) deserve counter measures or vulnerabilities. However, to say that there is no problem with either system as is, or that cloaks counter local, is to be ignorant to what it means to be a counter. The only thing cloaked ships in a system counter is active gameplay. Meanwhile, constant local offers uninterruptible passive intel with little to no room for a gang to sneak up on a target. Both are systems to be corrected, but share very little in common with one another in terms of actual gameplay.
A cloaked cyno ship is not trying to drop a roaming gang that is being impeded by intel networks they cannot disrupt. At the same time an intel network is not notifying people in any system that there’s a gang docked or logged off 8ly away in hostile space ready to drop. It’s that last part that you see people play it safe, because they know what threats could await them with no way of knowing if they’re there nor if the person in system will bring them in. Simply put there are too many unknowns with no way of countering the present perceived threat - the camper.
So again, I hold out hope for the observatory arrays to give both parties what they want so we can move on to a better balanced game with proper counter play mechanics. And when that happens those who simply want to cause as much of a disruptive presence to active players while there at work or sleeping can finally be given the middle finger and told to play the game and put something at risk.
The act of hunting is offensive. Or do you think a lion stalking it’s prey is a defensive act?
Lets not forget the original design of the cloaking system itself was defensive and was self countering that it held you on grid at a greatly reduced speed, scan res, etc.
Covert cloaks have none of that. They are 100% offensive in nature.
It’s a tool used to stalk prey. Remain hidden until the moment is ready to pounce either solo or with help. The ability to move and warp and full speed indicates as much that it is a tool for actively hunting, not hiding.
Edit- I don’t even know where you were trying to take that DC comment. But it’s cute that you’d even suggest a pure resist module is offensive. A DC is not a siege module lol
It’s also a tool used by peacefull explorers, haulers using them to move items safely. It’s a tool used to give you some breathing room in dangerous parts of space. It’s used to gather intel and to manipulate it. It’s used by news-writers and war-reporters.
It can be used aggressively and defensively. It’s a tool just like any other with it’s own limitations and advantages. Painting it as only a tool used by AFK-cloakers is a disservice to the useability of the cloak and changing how they work would limit the options that people have available to them. Just because you don’t like how people use cloaks, it doesn’t mean they are broken.
All those forms of use were added after the fact. I specifically referred to their initial intention when they were patched in. And I don’t feel haulers should have ever been given them, but regardless, even haulers and explorers can fit covert cynos. Just because that is not what some people use them for does not suddenly change their intended use nor exclude them from the need for a balance pass or release of a counter mechanic due to other use-cases.
Upon the OA being released if given the ability to probe covert cloaked ships, if upgraded, does not remove the cloak’s usefulness as a safety device for moving cargo or escaping gate camps anymore than reducing the agility of covert t3c made them able to avoid capture on gates or catch ratters. It simply added more possibility for counter play. If you undock you are not safe. If you use something in an offensive manner it should be paired with a like-counter. Currently there isn’t, that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be, nor that everything is fine the way it is.
Remember, the OA is likely to come out with counter play in the other facets currently missing them (local) as well. Giving hostiles and defenders alike the ability to disrupt local and other intel tools rather than the blanket local and map statistics. That alone should make space far more dangerous and a fun playground for active hunters to wreak havoc within. None of this passive crap that needs to be dealt with - that includes passive ratting and mining as far as I’m concerned as a problem to be dealt with.
CCP has admitted themselves that they only have some ideas what happens to the things they add to the game. They give us tools to be used as we want. Are you saying that wormhole-space is wrong because it’s being used totally against what CCP had thought it would be? Using cloaks to stalk someone is only ONE way to use it. CCP knew that we would come up with more ways to use cloaks.
