Bet you I can do 46.
But seriously, afk cloaky campers are less of an issue to me than the inability to have a coherent discussion with you two. Maybe I just expected too much from random EVE forum posters. 
Why not introduce another form of the now removed space AIDS?
That is,
Cloak Fatigue
Stay cloaked too long and there is a nice long reactivation penalty to your next cloak reactivation.
P.S I dont actually endorse this, just throwing some breadcrumbs out there.
Naah that would hurt regular cloaky hunters. But I like the idea.
It doesnāt matter.
Everything has been debunked already, talked about already and even logically dissected up to the point that it could as well have been locked.
You need to understand the other side of this:
Everything has been said and done already, multiple times. That includes me and Salt. At some point only the most hardcore stayed around and those, who stopped posting completely most likely got banned ā¦ but Iām not going to check, because ā ā ā ā them.
Hell, Iāve made posts completely dissecting the whole thing logically. I can link those, because they kind of sum it all up. Iāll be using the search function, btw! Itās a great tool to use so one can avoid rehashing the same things over and over again!
What a fascinating way of saving everyoneās time!
I get that the other side of this discussion for people who have seen it all said many times before can be annoying when you see another guy try yet again.
But a search engine only gets me to this thread. Or perhaps to a specific answer in this thread, when I look for exactly those words. A search engine does not offer a list of standing arguments and a list of debunked arguments.
Skimming this thread I can see a lot of bad arguments from both sides. But I have not yet seen a for me convincing reason for afk cloaking to exist without risk.
Click above. ^^^^
Enter search terms.
Click checkbox.
Search.
Well lets take a look at your suggestions from your big postā¦
Either CCP can put a time limit on cloaks ā youāve broken cloak hunters & WH Space
make it require fuel ā youāve broken cloak hunters & WH Space
module for players to slowly search and locate cloaky ships in space. Slow enough that anyone at their keyboard has no impact from it at all, but fast enough to catch some player that has been cloaked in system for hours in the same area ā if this module is like really slow scanning down of ships, then the initial ping will tell you that someone is in cloak in the system ā Youāve really effed up WH Space.
MY SUGGESTION,
Cloak removes players from local (and denies them Local)
If they break cloak for any amount of time they stay in local for 30 sec then drop out again when they reactivate cloakā¦
This makes cloaks really cloakie, still gives other players Localā¦ Makes it pointless to AFK cloak, and makes it so people have to work to both actively hunt while cloaked and pay attention while ratting.
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Whatās convincing for you is irrelevant.
Your personal opinion is irrelevant.
What matters is how it works and its effects.
The AFK cloaker can do literally nothing but being cloaked and warping around, assuming heās in a ship capable of doing so. He even needs to be Omega to be cloaked. He does not need to be suffering from any risks, because he literally can not do anything to anyone while he is cloaked.
This whole discussion exists purely because some assholes started it, which eventually led to this day, where you believe that there is a problem where there is none. The only reason why these types of discussions exist in the first place, is because of assholes who want to push the illusion of a problem.
Look at reddit. Thatās mostly nullseccers. They laugh at people who whine about afk cloakers, because afk cloakers are no issue to anyone at all except the RMTers who canāt have their risk free, effortless income anymore.
It really is that simple.
Youāre just their tool, nothing more.
Seriously.
Thatās also why itās always good to point out that the ones who are benefitting the most from this ā ā ā ā ā ā ā ā are RMTers. All the thousands of posts literally only exist because some guys, who are being prevented farming billions in perfect safety, are being disturbed by a ship that only sits somewhere in space.
ā ā ā ā them.
Youāre right, I guess that change would be bad for WH space. Weāll need something better.
Love it, thatās a really nice suggestion!
It gives active cloakies a powerful tool, to be completely hidden. People will never know whether a cloaky camper is in space, but afk cloaky campers will have absolutely no effect on the game whatsoever.
CCPlease add this.
Hm. I need to think this through.
ā¦
I think you two are missing the point.
The ones whining about afk cloaking are doing so, because the afk cloaker represents a potential danger. Removing him from local will not remove the danger, itāll make it even worse for them.
Btw ā¦ this thread has been astonishingly silent in the last weeks, comparatively speaking.
Guess most of them got banned already.
The thread, of course, still creates the illusion of an issue.
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Its an idea ive had for years (and posted on a number of occasions).
However it would likely be hated by both RMTers and people who like to AFK cloak and AFK intel gather.
I get your point Solstice, I get why people do AFK cloak, and I understand why Botters and renters hate it. But with my suggestion it remove the need for AFK cloaking.
Active cloaks can hunt Botters, and Renters canāt be scared by cloaked names in local.
The biggest issue here (as you know) is really the Renters and botters use AFK Cloaking as an excuse to push for nerfs to cloaks to protect themselves even more. Thus any actual solution will be shot down if it means they have to be more active in protecting themselves.
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A good chance that certain people wonāt like it. But Iām sure there will be others who will love the idea as well. It would be a controversial change, thatās for sure.
Iām not missing the point. I was merely trying to make a different point than most others did in this thread. Most people wanted the threat of cloaky campers gone, I just donāt like that afk players can have an effect on the game.
Removing afk cloaky campers from local would indeed do nothing about the danger, but it would solve the issue I have with afk cloaky campers.
So are you suggesting AFK in the entire game be checked or are you just singling out cloaked ships because they make your bots dock up?
Works for me. 
Check any AFK in the entire game. AFK VNIs, AFK miners, anything. Make sure that they can die if they donāt at least pay attention while watching netflix.
Good luck with that.
i have a few points to make sry that i didnt read literally 4.5k posts yet but if ccp/csm wants to have opinions of players iām going to put out some reasons why cloak is a problem cause from what iāve read iām not sure if problems are actually being looked at
local is ok, but if you donāt like it you can go to WH space at least.
-if weāre going to argue about base mechanics like local being in the game i can say i dont like scanning as a whole and it shouldnt be in the game, why do people get to just know where i am by hitting a button/looking at their map for undocked players past 30m, either all āperfect intelā is removed not just local
cloak is too safe for the power it projects
hotdropping is probably too good when paired with cloak. tbh i wouldnt mind if the titan bridge/cyno generators were removed and cloak stayed in the game but the combination is overpowered and changing cloaking seems like the better solution, a ton of stuff seems to rely on cyno/jumps/titan bridges already
most activities have a way for players to have a meaningful interaction but cloak doesnt
you can still harass people by coming into their systems, i.e. with a faster fleet that is less susceptible to bubbles/able to choose their engagements without needing cloak, hot drops have a similar effect. this style of harassment/āmindgamesā gameplay isnt lost it simply isnt given away for near 24h by hitting a button on your afk bubble immune black ops cloaky that no one had any real chance to catch nor are you taking a risk to get an effect in game
the ability to entirely choose your terms of engagement is a powerful tool. anyone saying that it isnt overpowered by arguing semantics of ābeing afk doesnt do anythingā is choosing to ignore the element of surpriseās effect on any engagement & or being intentionally dense for the sake of argument rather then examining practical application/effects
moving over a system isnāt always an option with groups that have less space to work in and or have logistical concerns with. there is already a way to almost entirely negate the āi want to harass logistics, so i need cloakā argument, there are already JFs + cynos on tethered stations to negate any real option for harassing logistics or ceptors to move small things around with almost no chance of being caught, ratting generates direct wealth into your wallet without any logistical concern beyond shooting the rats, there are much, much worse things to grind your axe on if you want logistical concerns to be more of an issue and for all the problems near 24h cloaking causes it isnt worth the āi want cloak to stay the sameā
-even if this were the only issue i think the option to generate theoretically infinite power projection via jump bridge titan stuff+cloak without any option to see it or interact with it for almost 24h, is as i mentioned before, very overpowered with people choosing to ignore it being argumentative for its sake
finally, i think iād be ok with cloaky camping existing i.e. a cloaky t3 is obnoxious and tough that literally stays in system all day and harasses once or twice before going afk for an hour, rinse and repeat, but i can at least deal by moving a system over to mine/rat whatever but when those cloakys generate the threat of theoretically infinite power projection or be one sneaky t3 itās better to assume with the worst if youāre in any valuable asset. as i said before i dont mind being harassed but if cloaky person chooses to use his cloak there isnt any chase/interaction for the response generated
anyways i think these are some fair points to consider and im curious if there is some sound logic why these arenāt issues that need to be addressed or iāll be trolled to oblivion by semantics
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Do you really expect a response to this diatribe ? why not just read the preceding 4,556 posts and make up your own, you already know what it will sayā¦
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Sorry, and I know this may come over as an insult, and I donāt want it to be, but you write like Trump speaksā¦ inconsistent things jumbled together, that have no real relationship, that kind of try to make your point.
Lets take this paragraph:
I donāt think anyone in this thread has ever disputed that being able to choose your terms of engagement isnāt a powerful tool. However you canāt really call it āOverpoweredā as someone has to choose to start an engagement in every PvP fight.
Also where has anyone ever argued that ābeing afk doesnt do anythingā with regard to the element of surprise in a PvP interaction? (not to mention that the person initiating any PvP encounter can never be afk, as they are actively initiating the interaction)
Local is too safe for the intel it provides
I hardly think that knowing how many people were undocked in the last 30mins, could be considered āPerfect Intelā, when compared with knowing exactly who has entered the system the second they enter the system. (but whatever, I would not argue against lessening the intel the galaxy map provides if cloaks were removed from, and denied, local)
I cant really comment on this as I dont have the experience with cyno generators, but surely they could be tied into the targeting delay that a covert ops cloak has. Then a target who is alert and on the ball has some chance to react?
Seriously, this stream of consciousness is very hard to understand.
It starts with - sometimes you cant move system (i presume you mean renters) , then deffend āyourā system, thatās your responsibility, a cloaker isnt gonna be able to harrass you if you have a defense force.
Then it goes on to say - " there is already a way to almost entirely negate the āi want to harass logistics, so i need cloakā argument" i dont understand, are you saying you have a way of negating the cloaking harassment? if so, then why are you here asking for cloak nerfs.
Then - ratting generates direct wealth into your wallet without any logistical concern beyond shooting the rats, there are much, much worse things to grind your axe on if you want logistical concerns to be more of an issue and for all the problems near 24h cloaking causes it isnt worth the āi want cloak to stay the sameā ā i donāt even understand your point here.
Um, ok, Iāll take a stab at this? I think you are saying that you are ok with cloaks as long as there is a way to find them? (and this has been brought up so many times before, being able to āfindā cloaks breaks everything about them, not to mention completely breaking WH space. The point of a cloak is that you are hidden, but weakened by the fact that you have a cloak fitted)
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I was bored at lunchtime so i gave it my best shot. So hard to understand that post.