Id like to see some sort of depth charges made for ingame, i cant be bothered to flesh out whether that would be a system wide thing or only grid based - whether it would be aoe or simply just effect cloaking systems - but i think it might add something to the cat and mouse that is cloaking in some way or another.
Im fine with the way it is atm, having spent many hours ratting in systems with cloaky campers hopinging they attack me in a stupid way… or simply jumping and camping another side of a gate… and yes; ive killed a few of them… more than ive been killed by tbh.
Because there is NO PROBLEM to be solved…
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Well yes, but if someone is going to insist that there is a problem they’d better come up with a viable solution for it before demanding one.
…And afk cloaking.
Local is too strong so ccp allow afk cloaking to combat it.
It’s very important that it be possible to disrupt peoples’ money-making in nullsec, and AFK cloaking is one of the most effective ways. We’re not worried about cloaked ships being overpowered because cloaked ships do very little DPS.
But we understand it has a pretty big psychological effect. We would like to make some changes…it may not be the changes people are expecting, though. For instance, I can tell you that AFK cloaking is not an issue in wormhole space and there are pretty good reasons for that.
And when local chat wasn’t working, CCP fozzie said afk cloaking really went away.
Whether you like it or not, local is the problem and afk cloaking is the answer. Cloaks aren’t changing until local changes.
This thread needs its own RMT related theme song!
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I wonder where all the others are.
Bet they got banned for RMTing already.
Not @Mike_Voidstar though, he’s still around according to the Userlist!
Good for you, Mike! I remember when you got motivated into posting anywhere outside this thread, trying really REALLY hard not to go back, but eventually you’ve given in. That was a sad day for us all! But now, it seems, your last post was on Feburary 22nd, of course in this thread!
Been a long, long time! Glad you overcome your addiction!
See me calling you as a … uh … test!
A test!
Yes!
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Because I’m trying understand why there is a player out in space that I cannot seek out to engage, and why this is a positive aspect of cloaking that shouldn’t be changed? I’ve said this several times. I’m beginning to think the reason why this thread is so long is people want the status quo and don’t care what the status quo does to the playerbase.
I may be a game designer, but honestly if I have no idea why such a thing is a positive feature, I can’t really approach the problem to purpose changes without those that like this feature and why they think it shouldn’t be changed.
Currently, I fail to see anything other than positives for having a method for players to not be immune to interaction out in space.
Okay, I’ll just repeat myself again:
I see there is someone in a system. I don’t want to them to be in that system, which is my sandbox. What is my recourse to deal with them?
Diplomacy
Guns
Ignoring them
Being unable to interact with a player is not part of what I deem part of eve online. If I wish to shoot someone out in space, why am I kept from this goal? Isn’t undocking supposed to be a risk?
Furthermore, while addressing this issue affects other aspects of the game, I am currently focused on just the idea of “Why is this player in space something I can’t interact with, and why is that a good thing?”
I seek feedback on this question. I have sought feedback on this question, consistently. If you have a reason why a player should be unable to go after a cloaked ship if they saw fit, as an option to drive pvp, share it. (and as before, assume the issues with bots and RMTers don’t exist for the purposes of the question)
I’ve answered your question over and over again, you just don’t seem to like the answer. And that answer is that there is no interaction because all proposed means of interaction either don’t accomplish anything other than making RMT bots more effective or cripple cloaked ships to the point that nobody would ever use them again. There is no point in having discussions of abstract philosophical questions about risk and interaction if there is no plausible means of changing the situation.
troll!
The tune has changed but the chorus remains the same. PS, what part of flying around a system in an attempt to de-cloak a ship is not active gameplay? How would you define “active gameplay”?
I never said it would be easy. I never said there wasn’t some skill/luck involved. I said:
There are many options available to a pilot with a modicum of intelligence who wishes to avoid a cloaked ship actively hunting them in ‘their system’. You can choose to utilise (or learn) these if you like.
If they’re AFK they are not a threat.
In either situation you’ll need be undocked to know for sure.
Regards,
Cypr3ss.
What is the recourse to local?
The answer to all your other questions is:
Because of local.
Null bears are too safe without afk cloakers countering local.
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The part in that you’re looking for a needle in a haystack, that may or may not be at a deadspace bookmark somewhere in the void of space.
This question includes all of space. Highsec, lowsec, null and even wormhole space.
I may know someone is in a system, if I want to engage them, why does cloaking make this effectively impossible? Why is this a good thing? If I want to shoot someone in space, why am I stopped from even attempts to locate said ship if it’s cloaked?
You mean the:
Why does having a cloaked ship in space render the ship immune to the risks of flying, and why is this a positive feature? (assume botting and RMT are out of the equation, by some magic)
Question?
No, you clearly have not, or did answer the question and it was deleted it/you had it deleted/or are simply lying. Please prove you answered this specific question rather than trying to discourage discussion regarding the topic.
Now you continue to harp on about how there should be a solution, while I don’t have anywhere near the information I would like to have to be able to generate one, I will attempt to provide one:
Subspace Combat Probes -
Weak combat probes that are tuned specifically locating ships using cloaking technology. Gains (lets say) a 300% bonus to probe strength when attempting to use against a cloaked vessel (while making them useful for this purpose, but not all purposes) Scanner time could be increased if needed.
Once used to locate the cloaked ship, you are given a warp in point that is roughly 300 km from the target. If you use these probes against a ship that is already in the same grid as you and you’ve already identified, the probes instead give you the cloaked ships exact location as a warp in, and the direction they are flying.
I have considered the idea of having the probes immune to dscan from cloaked ships, and the probes destabilizing the cloaked ship in some manner, decloaking it and preventing warp for 5 seconds, but without more information I am not sure if these are positive or negative additions.
To help counter this, a blackops ship would have it’s signature radius reduced significantly while cloaked and/or it’s sensor strength increased significantly to help keep it hidden from all but the more dedicated pursuers. The blackops could also keep the ability to warp, have it’s direction undetectable, exact location off by 10km, or some other bonus to ensure it’s a harder prize to find since it can’t warp while cloaked.
Due to the necessity of using the probes twice, a cloaked ship traveling wouldn’t be worried about these probes, just cloaked ships operating within a system or attempting to hide in said system for whatever reason.
This rough idea may be too complicated for implementation, and I’m sure other ideas exist for how to address the issue at hand, but for right now I’d prefer the discussion remain focused on Why does having a cloaked ship in space render the ship immune to the risks of flying, and why is this a positive feature? question.
We keep answering but you don’t like the answer.
There is no reward.
…and don’t come along with local intel being a reward, any docked person gets that.
Why shouldn’t it? It’s a CLOAK.
Because it counters local.
Because it counters local.
I can’t see how you are struggling with this. Local is too powerful. Therefore afk cloaking is allowed to stop it being so powerful.
Now answer my question: what is the recourse to local?
Because that’s the purpose of a cloak: to render the ship immune to being seen unless mistakes are made or you find the cloaked ship by bumping into it.
The drawbacks and dangers for cloaking are:
- Sacrificing a high slot and slower targeting speed for non-covops cloaks
- Flying a covops ship for the covops cloak, which are lesser suited to combat than the average non-covops combat ship.
- Flying too close to objects while stalking prey or when moving away from a gate
Cloaks are perfectly fine in my opinion. They do exactly what they’re supposed to do, which is hiding ships from being found.
The only issue I have with cloaks is that people can go AFK with cloak all day long without counterplay, which allows them to threaten a system all day long because the people in that system are unable to tell the difference between a player afk for 8 hours and a player who just returned and is about to jump on them with all of his blops buddies.
Put an [afk] sign next to any player name - for example Gerard Amatin [afk] - in local who hasn’t been performing any significant activities in the last 10 minutes (mouse wobble or auto click should still be considered insignificant) and any problems I have with afk cloaking are gone.
That’s the whole point.
You shouldn’t know whether he’s there or not. Afk or not.
If a cloaked ship doesn’t appear in local, or local doesn’t show non-corp/alliance characters, then we’re getting somewhere.
Counterplay would imply they’re doing something to you that you need to counter. If they’re afk, what could they possibly be doing that needs to be countered?
The psychological impact, a neut in local, is harmless. If one deems it harmful, they are perfectly welcomed to go rat somewhere else.
JFC you’re getting obnoxious. I have answered your question multiple times, you just don’t like the answer you received because it isn’t “yes, nerf cloaking so I can run my RMT farm better”. The answer is that a cloak makes a ship immune to risk because all proposed methods of adding risk have unacceptable effects. And so, when the choice is between having zero risk while cloaked and idle in a safespot vs. breaking stuff in an attempt to add risk, cloaks remain safe.
So, yet another idea that does nothing to increase PvP (since the cloaked ship can run away before you can get close enough to engage it) but does an excellent job of providing advance warning for RMT botters. The bot can now keep up a 5AU probe bubble and spam the scan button, and if anything shows up in the scan results it means a cloaked ship is inbound and it’s time to warp to station.
That’s pretty active… so you don’t really want to find them, just know that they’re there? Local already tells you this.
Well after you’ve been looking for a little while you will know for sure (but it seems you don’t want to have to look), and if they are then they can’t hurt you. I feel at this point a reminder is required that this is the AFK cloaky thread.
So I’m still not seeing the problem. Possibly if you could articulate it more clearly that might help?
If you wanted to engage them you’d be out looking, not here complaining.
Emphasis mine. Once again, and as shown earlier, you are not. You simply choose to not even try. You have to be active out in space, it would appear that this is not what you want… Are you trying to do AFK activities with a neut in local?
Right, got it. You just want an easy ‘kill it’ button so you don’t have to actually do anything to get your kills… makes perfect sense. Carry on.
Regards,
Cypr3ss.
cloaky campers?
whats the problem?