Sounds like neutrals are scary to you. Sounds like typical trash rentier talk…
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Kick system? And whom are they gonna kick?
Show me any other game where big battle means thousands of players fighting each other at teh same location… and then tell me if they have lag or not.
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There is no straw man at all. Over and over again the anti-cloaking side keeps proposing ideas to “increase PvP” that do not in any way increase PvP and have a primary effect of increasing the effectiveness of RMT botters (and bot-like players) by making local a better tool for avoiding PvP. It has been explained to them over and over again how this works, so there is no longer any excuse that they just didn’t realize the unintended consequences of their ideas. So we are left with one of two possibilities for why they persist in arguing for those ideas:
- They have a severe intellectual disability and are incapable of understanding the explanations they have been given.
or
- They understand how their ideas would buff RMT botting and do nothing to increase PvP, but are perfectly happy with that outcome because their goal is to buff RMT botting.
Given their ability to write in complete sentences I’m skeptical of option #1, so the only reasonable explanation we have left is that they are deliberately lobbying for RMT buffs.
You are generalizing.
Sure, there are bad ideas from the anti-afk-cloaking side, just like there are bad arguments from the afk-cloaking side. But I’m also on the anti-afk cloaking side but I have not yet supported any ideas that would reduce the amount of PvP. Anything that can be done to reduce the amount of AFK gameplay, increase the amount of risk and increase the amount of interaction is likely a good idea in my opinion.
So please, stop acting like the entire anti-afk-cloaking side is only supporting RMT botters, ignore the few idiots who do support RMT botting and stay on topic by not mentioning RMT botting again.
There’s a reason why I said “certain anti-cloaking people” and not “everyone who proposes any change to cloaking”. If you are not one of the people I am talking about then don’t feel compelled to defend yourself. But I will not pretend that a significant amount of the opposition to cloaking in this thread comes from people whose clear goal is to buff RMT botting.
Setting up market orders isn’t possible while AFK.
But the effect they have on your competition can certainly be felt while you’re AFK, or not even logged in.
It’s just like AFK cloaking. The act of getting into the system and cloaking requires you to be at the keyboard, but the psychological effect of that act can be felt at any time, even while you are AFK.
I can’t believe the absurdity of people’s arguments in this thread. I’m starting to think that 90% of you are just trolls. I read a ridiculous argument, and then I read the responses from people trying to dispute it as though it was a valid argument in the first place.
I’m ok. Did you see they gave monocles away as gifts? Granted they’re pasty grey imitations, probably made of the same plastic they use to make novelty keyrings…
It’s almost as if they go out of their way to taunt us.
That’s exactly the point I’m making: AFK cloaking has a bigger effect when you are AFK logged in than when you’re not logged in at all. AFK marketing has no bigger effect on your competitors whether you’re logged in or not. Hence, AFK cloaking has an effect, AFK marketing has not.
So, because the people you’re bidding against in the market can’t immediately tell if you’re online or not, that makes AFK cloaking bad?
(I’m not going for sarcasm here, I legitimately can’t understand your point and am hoping you clarify.)
What I meant that it makes no difference if you go AFK or log off after setting your market orders, both of those actions have the same effect on your competitors.
There is a big difference between going AFK cloaky or logging off. The former has a completely different effect on the game than logging off.
That’s why the act of AFK cloaking has an effect, unlike the act of AFK marketing.
Edit: I have absolutely no experience in market PvP, but I guess people can keep an eye on their competitor to see if they’re online and able to 1ISK them? In that case staying AFK instead of logging off may actually have an effect on the game.
You can get the name of the person listing the item by purchasing a unit of the product.
No sure how you tell if they are online though.
With a simple skill they can post and modify market orders from many jumps away. Not seeing them in local tells you nothing.
While not seeing them in local tells you nothing, seeing them in local might tell you something. 
Is this what you had in mind, @Bronson_Hughes ?
You do have a point @Gerard_Amatin
Ah. That is a much more clear statement of your position.
I disagree with your position (or rather, that your position justifies a change to the balance/metagaming of AFK cloaking), but at least now I understand it.
It’s difficult to give a time for it based on heat reduction skills, mods and such.
I might say that at a baseline, you’ve got maybe 30 minutes of being cloaked before enough heat is generated to cause damage, but it may need to be higher.
Nanite paste would play a role in the active cloak, as could a role bonus for reducing heat generation on covert ships.
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IOW, you have zero chance of ever catching a cloaked ship with this change and the sole effect is to make local a more useful tool for avoiding PvP.
A genuine question from myself is, why should those players who are at the keyboard be targeted and potentially exposed as well by a mechanic to combat those who are afk?
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So how do you imagine that will affect a lone WormHole cloaker stalking the residents in order to learn their movements and surprise attack them?