But THEY ARE. People rat in nulll despite cloaky campers.
But don’t worry. If you are scared of cloaky campers you can still play in hi-sec.
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Because i understand it’s necessary to be vulnerable in null. And thanks to local chat, the only effective way to make people vulnerable in null is cloaky camping.
And it’s not so much defending as pointing out your lies.
I Think we can all agree that this subject is definitely not a straight right or wrongs answer, There seems to be plenty of valid points on both sides on this one. I think there is a certain safety in ratting/mining in null with high profit margins and low risk if done correctly.
The cloaky scout is a valid and necessary tool for hunters to counter this lucrative activity. But the cloaked player who sits in the same place for long periods of time is effectively immune to any sort of risk . There is no denying that fact. Forget about what harm is he doing being afk , that is not the argument , the ship is in space and is untouchable , that should be the only issue. Now you could argue that someone sitting in station has the same advantage , but one controversial subject at a time people.
I think a simple cloak timer would solve the issue , 30mins and then a cooldown similar to bomb reload timers I think be sufficient, 30sec-1min perhaps , maybe lower . This would force the cloaky player to be active every 30mins is a fair enough ask I think. For a active player this wouldn’t be a issue , warp to safe , uncloak , wait , cloak , warp back. And for a afk player , well the same answer a afk miner would receive, should have been active . You uncloak and are left in the wind for all to see
Now if you uncloak and cloak before the 30mins timer , then normal uncloak and cloak timer applies ,
Cloaky t3 should probs have a longer timer perhaps or scout subs to help in this matter maybe.
non covert ships , should get a worse timer of course , god help you’re cloaked carrier haha , better have made decent safes .
To be clear again , this is not a easy debate , but if you can just imagine what impact this change would have on the game then provide some feedback please.
You could just read all the posts that were made the other 23572359087235 times your idea was proposed.
You know what I find highly amusing?
and then you come along with the same “only cloaks are the problem. Nerf cloaks”, while also making nullsec even safer after you acknowledged that it is already safe.
I could use a mwd interceptor and just let that thing fly in a straight line away from any and all celestials. It’s in space and it’s untouchable.
Ships tethered or under a POS shield. In space and untouchable.
Let me translate that: “I have never used a cloak before. I have no idea how cloaks and cloaky gameplay work, but I’ll dictate them their play style anyway because I don’t like that they have any effect on mine.”
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Carriers are capital ships. Meaning they aren’t meant to be flown solo. If you’re ratting in a carrier I assume you’re in fleet and on comms with a group. Counter the drop with the feet you already have standing by if that happens to you.
The issue is that local makes null too safe.
You don’t deal with one issue at a time. You do them both at once or neither.
I get that u need cloacky campers to play… but cant u see that all null is camped by these guys, and further more they know what and who moves throght systems and have history of this, like records of what happened at a given time, because the use bots to record this information? Is that hard to get it?
Sorry, it’s not a great point. There is no real point at all.
Basically it boils down to “If you do anything to cloaks then it ruins everything, so you can’t touch it.”
That is possibly the strongest argument for adjusting cloaks possible. It’s saying cloaks are so powerful, so all encompassing on every aspect of gameplay that any effective adjustment at all destabilizes everything. I don’t personally believe they are that overwhelming, and I certainly don’t believe they are some holy cow that can’t be touched just because a certain kind of player bases their entire playstyle around using them to hunt.
I mean look at how cowardly and pathetic that is. Putting any onus whatsoever on a cloaked pilot to need to move around once in a while becomes a KILL CLOAKER button, as if there would be no opportunity to bait, counter drop, evade or… You know what? It sounds like someone is afraid of being shot at at ever and can’t be bothered to defend themselves through the many, many options otherwise available to them so they need their magic risk free safety button to make even playing the game possible. God forbid your opponents take action against you. LOL It sounds exactly like what they accuse the accursed carebears of being like, while simultaneously quivering in their boots that those same bears might turn out to have teeth if given the opportunity.
How do they know this if they are AFK? Oh yeah…bots. So you want to nerf all cloaks because some players use bots.
You really are bad at game development, “Hi, we are ruining your game because some other guys who did something wrong that you had absolutely part in. Have a nice day.”
Actually there is. You are just deliberately not seeing it or you are obtuse.
If the guy can always get away he will be collecting that intel with 100% safety…which is now your current butthurt regarding cloaks. If you can catch him…then he was AFK and not collecting any intel to begin with.
And if you make it so you can catch even the active player you are nerfing those who are not causing the problem.
Your position is as ludicrous as the player who once wanted to scan down AFK cloakers so he could “PvP them”. PvP a guy not at his keyboard…
You’d probably get more respect if you didn’t lie.
No, the problem is that your suggestion does nothing in regards to 100% safe intel and if it can, then it nerfs any and all uses of cloaks into near uselessness. You might as well advocate for removing cloaks altogether.
That might be a good argument…if that was the argument I and others are making. It isn’t so it is not.
Given all your statements to the contrary? Really?
Here is one of the awesome quotes:
That statement was postively ridiculous.
Complete nonsense given the number of cloaked ships that die every day, especially blockade runners.
And I am sure I could find some more if I were to go to the old AFK cloaking thread.
And regarding this, it reminds me of policy decisions made by governments. I see it in my day job. A decision is made and it “breaks” X, Y and Z–i.e. it creates a whole new set of problems. So then they go and try to fix X, Y and Z, and then create problems A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, and J. I can’t complain too much as it is great at keeping me employed.
Don’t go breaking 3 or more things to try an fix 1 thing. That is just stupid. And never mind that you are ignoring the very thing that makes AFK cloaking so powerful…local.
Prediction: Mike will do his song and dance about how local is completely unrelated to cloaks. It is pathetic in the sense of bad 1970’s disco dancing and it doesn’t even have its humor value anymore.
So you from saying it’s a great argument, but it’s not what’s being said to then rewording that exact argument.
We can’t do anything with cloaks because it breaks x, y and z, and fixing those things causes even more problems.
Except that cloaks need that adjustment if x, y and z are so completely broken without them because if x,y, and z are at all important to anyone for any reason then they deserve to be opposed and cloaks make that impossible unless the pilot chooses otherwise.
The argument of ‘sorry, you missed your opportunity’ is ridiculous when said opportunity only occurs once, potentially years ago. There are threats that have nothing to do with being shot by that particular ship, and being a threat isn’t required for someone to be hunted, so brushing it off as ‘he isn’t a threat’ isn’t a valid reason for immunity. Wanting to ‘PvP’ a guy who may be afk is fine too- maybe that guy should actually pay attention to his ship.
What does cloaked ships dying when they aren’t cloaked have to do with any of this. You bring it up pretty often like it’s a defense, but every single one of those ships that happened to have a cloak fitted made decisions that put them at risk of decloaking, and aside from foolishly running into smartbombs were not cloaked at the time. You are simply observing that a module didn’t function when you fail to turn it on. Bravo, keen powers of deduction there.
You’re saying that your problem is bots, not cloaky camping. You’re not gonna nerf all cloaks because some use bots. What you do is report the bots.
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nobody is saying cloaks are completely broken without requiring fuel/timers. We are saying that cloaks are fine the way they are. If you change cloaks to require fuel/I’m still here clicks you are nerfing them for every other use. And you would be doing this because of the psychological effects a cloaked player has on you.
Cloaks are absolutely not the problem. There are many ways to counter cloaked ships, or you ignore them and isk tank by earning more than they cost you.
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And this keeps happening ‘Cloaks are a problem because of drops’ … so it’s cloaks + cyno then. ‘Cloaks are a problem because intel bots’ … so it’s bots that are the problem.
And so we go round and round.
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You are correct- no one is saying that cloaks are completely broken without fuel or a timer, not even me. What has been requested, and what those measures are being suggested for, is a counter option to them.
You say cloaks aren’t the problem, yet it’s a recurring theme:
It’s not cloaks, it’s Cloaks+Cyno.
It’s not cloaks, it’s Cloaks+Intel
It’s not cloaks, it’s Cloaks+Local
Over and over again, issue after issue, it’s not cloaks, it’s the fault of whatever the cloak is preventing from having a reasonable counter. Or we can finally admit that the common denominator in all the many complaints about Cloak+Something are the cloaks themselves. Gathering Intel, Blueballing hunters to save unescorted capitals, degrading system value, and much more is magnified beyond proportions granted by holding SOV and maintaining structures by a module with trivial costs in terms of time, Isk and fitting, without recourse… But apparently this isn’t the fault of that module, it’s the fault of everything it touches.
Sorry, no. It’s totally cloaks.
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No, you’re just too stubbornly ignorant to pay attention here. The issue is not that cloaks are powerful, it’s that cloaks are BINARY. You’re either detected or you aren’t. There’s no partial state where a cloak makes you harder to see but not 100% undetectable, because EVE does not support stealth mechanics. It has no visibility scale, no line of sight, etc. And changing this fact to allow a less binary cloaking mechanic would require rebuilding core concepts of the game engine, if it’s even possible to do it at all.
The result of this is that any cloak nerf that makes it possible to detect a cloaked ship has no middle ground. It’s either effective enough to actually catch something and immediately shuts down cloaked gameplay, or it isn’t effective enough to have a realistic chance of catching anything and might as well not exist.
No, that would be in the “ineffective” category. Making a cloaked pilot move around occasionally is laughably ineffective, and will never let you catch anyone. It’s a pointless mechanic that does not need to exist.
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If we got rid of protection for players which would normally be naturally selected out (ya know, evolution), this thread wouldn’t exist.
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It doesn’t immediately shut down all cloaked gameplay. It just means a cloaker will have to take action to secure his safety like everyone else, just with the advantage of time. That advantage need not be all of eternity like it’s current state.
Thing is, with scanning there s a lot of room for cloaks to be effective without being 100% for the rest of time. That risk that Teckos touts so much would actually exist if you could just get on grid with one against his will. Then you could try to get friends and drag drones, drop cans, smartbomb, etc…
The only time a cloaked ship is at risk is when it’s moving, I don’t even care if they get caught, so long as there is the risk of it happening against their will. It needs to be reasonable. Your crying about a KILL CLOAKER button is worse than the most rainbow and fluffy of carebears. You are saying that needing to defend yourself at all in any way negates your entire playstyle.
Except the carebears who cry about a single guy preventing them from crabbing in perfect safety.
It’s hilarious how helpless, weak people spend their Life talking about something they can not and will not ever be able to change to their advantage. 
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Those carebears do have to take action to secure their own safety. Even if all they do is watch local and warp to a station when a neut appears, that is taking action. Cloaks allow their user to push the magic button and go to sleep, no onus of further action of any kind.
I don’t know about the other ‘helpless, weak people’ but for myself I have far more time to do this than actually play most of the time due to various real life issues, and the cognitive dissonance and logical inconsistency of the pro-cloak ‘argument’ just bugs me.