Main AFK cloaky thread

You can’t counter them.

Pop quiz, should be really easy.

Guy is in your system, under a cloak, in sight of your gate or station gathering intel.

How do you counter that?

Your answer thus far is catch him when he moves… except he has no reason to move ever again. So now what? Bait him…except he’s not there to fight. Get in a standing fleet…umm, he doesn’t care, still not there for a fight. Get on comms… he’s not there to engage anything, just gather intel that you don’t want him to have.

So feel free to just hint on how to counter him.

Edit: I mean, I guess you could just pack up and leave, abandoning the space entirely. Or you just put up with the spy without a counter.

On another point, I have never once equated cloaks with stations. That’s your side’s argument, one of the very first ever made. I have pointed out that cloaks were safer than stations, which they are, in my opionion undeservedly so.

You counter him before he gets into system.

■■■■ man, don’t give away the advantage.

He had to get there in the first place…

Then ignore him.

Then ignore him, he is not a threat.

Ignore him and PvE. He isn’t a threat.

No Mike, I’m not like you when it comes to a guy who is not a threat.

You didn’t say how to counter someone gathering intel.

The question wasn’t about PvE. It was how to counter a guy gathering intel under a cloak.

Do tell me what else in game you can do by setting yourself up once a year ago and then keep doing it without fear of reprisal. Even station traders get their prices undercut or fall prey to the occasional scam if they aren’t super careful.

It’s not all about AFK camping. AFK is a symptom. Cloaks have the problem.

Shoot them before they get in system and set up. If you want to protect your staging system or whatever…then protect it.

Shoot him as he is coming in. If it is so important to keep secret whatever you are doing…take steps to keep it secret.

You mean like how local is disabled in wormholes until the yoy voluntarily reveal yourself. That’s pretty different from how local works in the rest of the game.
Again no excuse why cloaks can’t behave different in k space and wormholes as local already does.

And you have no way to prove anyone’s afk, if theyre active they will react to the cloak nerfs in order to stay safe. If they’re afk they can be found and killed.
Only affects afk players. And there shouldnt be players logged in who aren’t doing anything. Other games log you out for inactivity.

As for the first guy I forgot to address his mines comment. Mines should have been fixed not removed. T3s are still in the game and they haven’t been fixed even with the changes. Why werent t3s removed long ago. I addressed potential mine abuse by blocking them from being in bubbles or within a certain distance of gates. Admittedly it’s before my time but I’ve always wanted mines to come back. Theyre good defensive items and cloaks count as this games “submarine” there needs to be a way to go out and counter a submarine. Whether it’s a stealth bomber, an afk camper, a relic hunter, or a cyno ship.

It’s Ok… you can say it. There is no counter to that situation.

So you have to maintain 24/7 365 flawless interdiction on every gate and wormhole to ‘counter’ a guy who can get lucky once and be in place until they shut down the servers for good.

Yeah, there’s no way that’s a problem for anyone, right?

It brings us back to If it’s worth doing, it’s worth opposing. This is EVE and you don’t deserve a free lunch.

Oh and BTW, it was you with the “cloaks are equivalent to stations…”

If you want to make cloaks equivalent to stations then we need equivalent drawbacks too, like not being able to see space, and the exit point from a cloak becoming known, and in null a method to make them completely unavailable or only functional by sov holders. You know, like actual stations. Ridiculous I know, but I am not the one trying to draw equivalence between a module and a station.

Nobody wants to make cloaks equivalent to stations. That was something you came up with.

That wasn’t a nerf to local.

So what activity do you do that we can nerf to “fix” AFK cloaking? Missions? Can we nerf missions? How about manufacturing…do you do manufacturing? Maybe we can nerf that to “fix” AFK cloaking.

Don’t worry, I don’t expect you to get this point, so I’ll spell it out for you. Nerfing active cloaking activities to nerf AFK cloaking is bad game development.

No it doesn’t. If an active cloak user has to change his behavior it affects him too.

Only because you gave up the advantage and let him in.

Only if you want to catch them. Look, you wanted an opportunity…there it is. Use it.

Yes, which is why you should be trying to stop them at the gates.

Oh…and nobody really cares if you are sitting in space cloaked up “gathering intel”. In fact, most of the time there is nothing going on. For it to really be a “big deal” is the guy would have to be at his keyboard just as something happens…see you are essentially assuming “24/7/365 flawless intel gathering” which is, of course, bravo sierra.

It’s just funny how desperate people are to prevent any changes even if it’s as simple as cloak deactivating after 5 minutes of use.
No fatigue, no cooldown, no fuel, immediately click it again and you recloak.
Just having to click to remain cloaked before the cloak winds down and decloaks you is too much for them because it’s a crutch.
And it would only punish afk players who aren’t reactivating the cloak.

Because you want to nerf all uses of cloaks to nerf one aspect you don’t like. That is just lazy and bad game development.

Why should a player who is ATK have his game nerfed so you can have greater safety? Why do you deserve this special benefit?

No, because as an active hunter I should not have my game nerfed.

This is a lie.

Local becomes less effective as you transition into wormhole space.
That’s a real time nerf based on your location in game exactly the same as I’ve suggested in which cloaks operate differently outside of wormhole space.

You don’t know what you’re talking about. We get it dude.

So what? I like double milk chocolate milano’s made by Pepperidge Farms…what does this non-sequitur have to do with anything?

It was not a nerf. It was designed that way from the beginning. You can’t nerf something that was never there to begin with.

Yes it was a nerf. If it wasnt a nerf when you entered a wormhole local mechanics wouldn’t change.
When you hit enter wormhole local is nerfed until you exit through a wormhole back to k space or die and get podded back to k space.

In my system when you hit enter wormhole the cloak changes to combat afk cloakers dissapears.

If something becomes less effective it’s nerfed until you go somewhere and it reverts to its original state.

If you want to make cloaks equivalent to stations then we need equivalent drawbacks too, like not being able to see space, and the exit point from a cloak becoming known, and in null a method to make them completely unavailable or only functional by sov holders. You know, like actual stations. Ridiculous I know, but I am not the one trying to draw equivalence between a module and a station.

Nobody wants to make cloaks equivalent to stations. That was something you came up with

I see we are back to pulling things out of context again to reach for a point. Nope, you can even see in the quote “If you want…” I was already replying to your earlier claims that cloaks served the same purpose as a station for those who were not residents. The point was that if you wanted to make that claim, then they need equivalent drawbacks. I mean just read the thing, it’s not hard to understand. If you take enough things out of context you can make anyone say anything, try being a little more honest.

Nerfing active cloaking activities to nerf AFK cloaking is bad game development.

Active cloaking needs adjustment as well. You need look no further than the old “Save the Titans!” argument, or those that claim that WH’s would be ruined without them, or your own dogma about how scouting would become impossible without cloaks remaining completely effective for unlimited time barring pilot error or idiocy.

Mike_Voidstar:

It’s Ok… you can say it. There is no counter to that situation.

Only because you gave up the advantage and let him in.


Mike_Voidstar:

So you have to maintain 24/7 365 flawless interdiction on every gate and wormhole to ‘counter’ a guy who can get lucky once and be in place until they shut down the servers for good.

Only if you want to catch them. Look, you wanted an opportunity…there it is. Use it.

It’s laughable that you find that to be a reasonable response. In order to counter an ongoing, permanent situation I have to have perfect interdiction at all times. He may not be gathering that intel 24/7 365, but neither does he need to repeat any of his setup other than hitting that magic button one time a day… unlike the ‘counter’ that has to be active at all times forever and ever.

No, there needs to be a counter option. It can take more people and even several minutes while being incredibly obvious it’s happening so that the cloaker can react to maintain his safety, but that onus of actively insuring personal safety must fall on everyone not in a station.

If it’s worth doing, it’s worth opposing.

Yes, which is why I wrote, “Nobody wants to make cloaks like stations…” that is something you cooked up.

No they don’t. Players like that die every day. You have that opportunity you keep going on about with them. They are not the problem. The guy you are having issues with is the guy who sets up in system and is largely AFK…you even said so the last few posts…just not in so many words.

No more laughable than your implied 24/7/3654 perfect intel gathering. You know what that guy in system all day is gathering in terms of intel? Nothing. Because he is AFK.

You really have to reach for some seriously ridiculous Bravo Sierra to try and justify an across the board nerf to cloaks.

Mike_Voidstar:

I see we are back to pulling things out of context again to reach for a point. Nope, you can even see in the quote “If you want…” I was already replying to your earlier claims that cloaks served the same purpose as a station for those who were not residents. The point was that if you wanted to make that claim, then they need equivalent drawbacks. I mean just read the thing, it’s not hard to understand. If you take enough things out of context you can make anyone say anything, try being a little more honest.

Yes, which is why I wrote, “Nobody wants to make cloaks like stations…” that is something you cooked up.

You literally claimed cloaks were the equivalent of stations, and that’s what I was replying to. How, and why, would I reply to something I cooked up and apparently posted as you? At no point did I claim cloaks and stations should be considered equal in any way.

The guy you are having issues with is the guy who sets up in system and is largely AFK…you even said so the last few posts…just not in so many words.

I don’t have issues with anyone going AFK. What they choose to do with their time online is their business. I have issue with the guy that’s in space doing something that someone would want to oppose from a completely safe position due to their magic button.

You know what that guy in system all day is gathering in terms of intel? Nothing. Because he is AFK.

Is he AFK? Really? Suppose I choose not to trust that and want to clear out the spy anyway—that’s my choice, and in a sandbox game based on PvP a completely reasonable and in any other circumstance supported one. What’s the counter? He is doing something worth doing, it deserves opposition.

No. People have said that cloaks at a safe spot provide safety similar to being docked. That is it. You then went on about cloaks being equivalent to stations and modules, yadda yadda yadda yadda.

Sure you do, you were just complaining about.

You really think he is at his computer 24/7/365 like you were just complaining about. I’m guessing he is AFK sometimes after all he has to get food and take a dump sometimes.

See, this is what is wrong with your side of the debate. You always go for the idiotic extreme. “They are gathering intel all the time…24/7/365!!!” Or, “That cyno can bring in 5 billion ships!!!” Frankly why do you bother playing the game at all. Apparently these cloakers are so awesome they beat you when they aren’t even at their keyboard. You should give up now.

So what if I don’t trust he is afk when preparing for whatever it is I don’t want him to know about.

Where’s the counter?

It’s entirely unreasonable to say you have a single opportunity to counter a spy who thereafter is a permanent fixture. Suppose he was there before the whatever it is was even possible, or planned? Where’s the gameplay? He just wins forever unchallenged because he happened to warp in first and push his magic button?

It’s Ok to say there is no counter. You can be honest if you try. You don’t have to take just the first line out of context to try and get in a ‘witty’ response.

It was that opportunity you missed when he game in through the gates in the systems you own.

You do know how these forums work right. When you quote somebody you see that ‘v’ like thing next to the down arrow…it lets you see the entire post. Complaints about “out of context quoting” is lame with the new forums.

Edit:

See this is what my post looks like initially

And this is what it looks like when expanded.

That is a really stupid idea. If it’s incredibly obvious and easy to avoid then it has no purpose. You’re literally asking for an interface button you can press to make yourself feel better. It doesn’t do anything, it doesn’t even send anything to the server when you press it, but it says “MAKE THE CLOAK GO AWAY” and you can keep pressing it to feel like you’re doing something. And I see no reason why CCP should introduce changes just to make you feel better about being able to press a button.

So what if I don’t trust he is afk when preparing for whatever it is I don’t want him to know about.

Where’s the counter?

If he isn’t AFK then no reasonable counter is going to keep your secrets. We’ve told you this a million times before, any anti-cloaking tool that is effective enough to ever catch an ATK cloaked ship would be effective enough to negate the entire purpose of cloaks and make them completely ineffective. Either it takes long enough to catch the cloaked ship that it can simply move to a new safespot and be 100% safe, or it’s fast enough to catch the cloaked ship before it moves and becomes effectively a “KILL CLOAKER” button that you press and instantly get a killmail.

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