Your ship has offensive systems, these are defense against it. Last I checked, local never shot anyone.
Cloaky campers are not undefeatable. When they engage you, they tend to die often. Until then, they’re as defeatable as you are when you dock up in a station. Who needs unbeatable dockers?
Alt accounts are exceptionally easy to fund. I’m debating starting up another one. In fact, you can run alt accounts literally for profit, if you just use them as skill farms. They can farm enough injectors to pay for their plex plus a little extra. You do NOT need to be in a big alliance to be able to afford one.
Cloaky campers benefit anyone, not just big alliances? You’d be amazed how easy it is to make isk parking a camper in a bot runner’s system. He’ll pay you off because its peanuts for him.
I would love that u explain to us please how to kill a cloaky camper on any system. Please avoid the fact that is imposible and try to explain how u need to catch him when server reboots or getting him in a fraction of a second before is able to leave a jump gate, and of course lets forget that u can easily refit a very cheap ship and do it again without any problems at all.
You are right, the game is this … get an alt account to cloacky camp your enemys instead of playing with friends … because u know … this is the mecanics here … cloack camp everyone!
And by the way, they dont hace one, the have dozens of them. Probably goons have more than 50 only.
A cloaky camper isn’t impossible to stop. He still has to travel to your space. Cloaky ships are not invincible when moving between systems and they aren’t invincible when they try to attack you. They are only invincible when they are cloaked, during which they can’t do anything to you but watch and wait. Fly pvp fit, in a fleet with a counter cyno. That will cover pretty much every threat a cloaky camper can represent.
Null sec alliances are cloaky camped often, yet null sec has not ground to a halt. In fact it’s activity seems to be growing with the new indexes. The only people who have a problem with cloaky campers is people who aren’t working with other players to protect eachother. Get out of null ffs. Stop pretending to be defenceless when you’re really just lazy.
Really? thats your answer? AFK Cloacking means something? Cant you get the point of what im saying? They cant be caught, just cant. Yes, of course u can get them … when they enter the system (3 seconds tops) or ambushing them (if they are not AFK and willing to try to catch you) but wtf man… they dont even move (because they dont even need to) …
Goons Cloacky campers dont even move to try to catch u (there are clear exceptions)… they just want the intel of the system and if they can or want they will attack, but they are invincible and invisible no matter what you try to avoid saying, u cant get them, they log on after server reboot and stay in any system until whatever they want, imposible to move them, because they have no reason to move … because they can… you cant do anything against them…
For an argument to be valid, the flip-side of the argument must also be valid. Otherwise it is an unfair argument. So… explain why docking in a station should entitle you to safety, but cloaking should not.
If you’ll let me hack you out of a station, I’ll let you hack me out of cloak. It’s an even trade.
Great. So let’s remove local, remove stations, and require at least 10 minutes to warp out of a PvE site. You know, so that I can shoot those PvE players I want to kill instead of watching them insta-warp back to a station the moment I appear in local and never undock until I leave.
You can destoy the citadel deployed if u want to stop that kind of activity. Cloacky campers cant be stoped.
Lets forget the goons for a second because although they clearly do it, it is not their fault. Alliances gatter information with bots… the bigger the alliance the easy is for them to control the system intel. Bots reading in game memory or network data analizing what enters and goes out of systems …
Yes, for avoiding this kind of activiy it could perfectly be used … if a system is conquered by other alliance and there is a station with clones or u docked, they should be able to get u out of it. Maybe in a month o a few weeks … yes… why not?
Knowledge is power … here … intel with bots is power (and the big ones do it very easily lol) …
No I can’t, it has vulnerability timers. 3 of them. All wrapped up behind a vulnerability window.
If you want it to take a week to scan down a cloaked ship, now we’re talking.
No, I asked why it’s a problem. You’ve not managed to answer that.
So you want to be able to scan down a cloaked ship in a matter of… what… minutes? Hours? But you expect me to bring in a toaster fleet during a vulnerability window to reach you, in what will most definitely be a max ADM system?
Yes, it is. Alliances that are big deserve to have the power they earn. Nothing is stopping you from doing the same, save your own lack of interest.
So? You can destroy it… maybe it should be easier to destoy a structure that is placed on an enemy system …but u can destoy it. Even so, lets just say u place a citadel (1 Billon or so) in a system to do this … destroying it would generate a lot of content in the game (destroying these “camping” structures).
What? no why? One week? server reboots every day… it has to be a few hours or minutes… or not even posible to detect them but they not be indefinitly invisible or something like that …
Yes sure, minutes or they should not be invisible all the time. You would be defending your citadel which would be placed in an enemy system… it would be the attackers deal to mantain a cloack activity “docked” in a citadel not the defender. The attacker could also get the system if thats what they want…
What? u dont see the problem using bots? really? Cloacky camping is imposible to control, of course people use it to drop cynos and other stuff but we both know that is not how its used by big alliances.
No, you are wrong … not with bots… no… and again… you cant control it … Is not a problem of CCP, every great game has bots and that wont stop … there is always a way to hide process activity in a computer, thats why is so dificult for them to find game bots
Only by investing a vastly disproportionate amount of effort. For all practical purposes if a target is camping in a citadel they are not vulnerable. The chances of catching them are about the same as the chances of catching an AFK cloaked player because their cat walked across the keyboard and hit the cloak button, leaving them vulnerable to probes.
Even a single pilot in the chair of an armed citadel will be able to kill anything I can cloaky camp in with exceeding ease. So no, I can’t within the context of this discussion. Regardless, I’m not about to spend a week hunting a single system to kill someone when they can just log off before the citadel’s final timer pops. That’s the opposite of content.
You seem to be fine with it taking me a week to reach you, so why wouldn’t you be okay with taking a week to reach me?
Why would I be defending a citadel and why would it be in an enemy system? I just toasted it, it’s my system now? I just spent literally hours toasting your system, after waiting for a vulnerability window, to kick you out of the structures.
If they’re using bots to drop cynos, I’ll be impressed. Intel without action is useless.
That is an opinion, not fact. You’ve failed to demonstrate that there’s any harm caused.
Guys is ok, i dont have all the answers, just trying to give ideas… but this is a clear reason why people leave the game… they cant play it…
You are clearly using cloacky campers and you need it for your game, it is ok. Then it wont change, Intel will continue to be used with bots by big alliances as is right now and people that understands the game will continue to leave because there is no new content and cant play to reach higher levels … or of course join goons and rat to buy new ships, new content, and keep playing in one of their 200 systems were at least a few dont have an 18 to 23 hours scheduled cloack camp.
What i was trying to say, excuse my bad english, is that if cloack camping wouldnt be an option anymore for some weird but enlightened reason, citadels could be used by enemys (as an alternative to cloack camp) to check the people in the local but with a player docked in that citadel. And that if system owner dont want that citadel they could destroy it with its docked players (enemys). On the other hand, if an enemy is docked in a station, the owner could be able to easily dockup that guy or kill it (maybe wayting some time or something) .
Also, yes, a LOT of people can’t play this game. It’s not something stupid people can pick up at all, and even then, some smart people don’t have the right mindset. This game has a significant skillcurve.
Never cloaky camped a day in my life. I just don’t care becuase when they show up in our space, we kill them if they drop on us and ignore them the rest of the time. They’re literally a non-issue.
This is putting the cart well before the horse. We’re still at the point where we don’t even agree that it’s a problem, let alone that the solution is to take it out of the game.
Im not sure what game are u playing… if u play eve, in null, undefetable cloak campers are an issue. Why you think everyone has a side? (in favor or the oppositive)
Corps and Alliances are not happie when you loose a Rorqual just because u didnt care about that grey thing on the local and kept mining … some of them even will want you out … i can almost hear it xD "— Me- What? where is the response fleet, this is our territory!! --Corp- Are u idiot? you are out of the Corp, you think loosing ships is what we do? go back to high … "
By the way, why do u defend cloack camping so much if u dont even use it?
Just shows how reliant you are on a crutch.
We already have utility high slots. Nothing wrong with sacrificing a neut or smart bomb slot for a launcher that instead of probes shoots out a decloaking bomb.
It’s a utility item.
As for cap shouldn’t you have a cap booster?
Cloaks are a crutch and they’re broken.
I never said wh players are weird. I have a few friends who live in wh space. Cloak problems don’t extend there but theyre broken in k space. Cloak nerfs don’t need to apply there.
“Natural phoenomena are counter acting x factor on your cloak” as you enter a wormhole. Boom there ya go.
I love my astero but the thing is absolutely broken just being able to sit all day completely immune to everything and undetectable by any means with no limit on it. I’m completely safe while cloaked.
For all the b****ing people do about local chat being free intel no one’s complaining afk cloakers give free Intel of what’s going on in the system? It’s crutch based hypocrisy and y’all need to get over yourselves cause it’s embarassing tbh.
Cloaks are the problem, and t3s are the current problem with t2 ships cause t3s are more powerful with none of the downsides. A few months ago you saw tons of people whinig that t3s weren’t the problem and.not to nerf them. Theyre still op lol and need another round of nerfs till theyre worse than t2. Carriers get nerfed, rorquals get nerfs, vexor got nerfed. When things are too good they need nerfs
Its the cloaks turn to take a nerf. You can learn to adapt like everyone else when there’s a change. Cloaks don’t get a free pass.
No I can’t, it has vulnerability timers. 3 of them. All wrapped up behind a vulnerability window.
So? You can destroy it… maybe it should be easier to destoy a structure that is placed on an enemy system …>but u can destoy it. Even so, lets just say u place a citadel (1 Billon or so) in a system to do this … destroying it >would generate a lot of content in the game (destroying these “camping” structures).
He is attempting to use the tired old false equivalency of cloak=station. Stations were put in the game to allow players to build wealth and have a purpose in the game. Basically they exist as safe spaces so that we aren’t playing Battlefield in space. Cloaks don’t serve that purpose, and so don’t deserve the same consideration.
Engaging him on this is giving legitimacy to the point, just ignore it completely unless he can come up with a good reason why a module with trivial training, cost, and fitting should equal the time investment of taking SOV and maintaining structures. They aren’t even tangentially related, it’s pure BS trying to compare apples to orangutans.
Old_Pervert:
No, I asked why it’s a problem. You’ve not managed to answer that.
What? u dont see the problem using bots? really? Cloacky camping is imposible to control, of course people >use it to drop cynos and other stuff but we both know that is not how its used by big alliances.
The answer is simple. If it’s worth doing, it’s worth opposing. They are gathering intel someone else does not want them to have. That someone else should have an option to interfere with it. That’s the core problem of cloaks, several things have become reliant on them specifically because there is no way to counter them to the point that even considering even the most mild change makes them clench their cheeks at the utter destruction of what they consider gameplay.
Botting is a separate issue. Sure it happens, but it’s already illegal and actively hunted by CCP (of course they hunt those doing PVE stuff with it more, but meh)
IIRC you were the one to trot that claim out. Oh the irony.
And cloaks do not let you do that…so what is the problem? If anything it seems that stations are more of a problem from this point of view.
Sure they do when you are in hostile territory. This is where your lack of experience with cloaked ships in a combat setting shows through. A fleet going into hostile space for an extended period of time can take with them something called…and ammo truck such as a crane or other blockade runner. This ship will care supplies such as ammo, LO, and so forth.
Because it provides none of the benefits. Can you JC out of a cloaked ship? Nope. Can you store other ships in a cloaked ship, board them and fly around in them? Nope. Can you do station trading? Not unless you are in range of your orders. Can you repair your ship while cloaked? Nope. Can you buy insurance? Nope.
You do, you camp the gates. You keep the “bad guys” out, or at least try too.
No way to counter them? Please, they die all the time. You counter them as they move around form system to system when they cannot cloak. Use drag bubbles, use cans, go for the decloak in an interceptor, etc.
