Agree.
While I agree that a cloaker is safe, and that “nothing should be safe”, they’re not doing anything while they are cloaked. By that strict of a definition, you should be at risk even docked in a station.
The simple fact of the matter is, if they’re cloaky camping, your answer is to rat in groups. Your answer is to rat in pvp ships.
I promise they’ll get bored and leave as soon as their engagement is concluded with whoever hired them, if they were hired at all.
There are tons of mechanics to a catch a ratter/miner/industrialist in sov null who is watching local chat. Let me list a few:
I’m not going to say that intel doesn’t need balance, but comparing the risk to PvE/mining ships to cloaked ships is a bit of a stretch.
There’s also no mechanism in game to catch a ratter/miner/industrialist in sov null who is watching local chat. Let’s get rid of that and then we can talk about cloaks.
You are trying to compare a hard mechanical advantage like cloaking to an active tactic like manually watching local, manually flying aligned and ready to go, manually warping away when danger appears.
Fact is, PvE ships in SOV null die all the time. It’s apparently possible to catch them.
If you’re gonna be dumb, you better be tough.
I see it all the time, and in every instance, said PVE ship was being piloted by someone who had no reason being in that ship at that time. Either they are perpetually too bad at the game, distracted by netflix, or they went AFK like a retard.
It is very true there is no way to actively hunt a camper. There doesn’t need to be.
No matter what the camper’s objective is, I am positive you are preventing them from achieving it by ratting in pvp groups.
If they don’t achieve their objective, they don’t win. You do.
Marginally competent ratter won’t get caught by logoff trap, because warping back to the site you just left as soon as the reds leave local is rather… um… less-than-skillful?
It takes 1 (one) server tick to warp to citadel tether. It takes more than 1 (one) server tick to start warp, land, lock and point [citation needed].
Who actually bastions in null? Indy core comes on PANIC-capable ships, so you can always cyno up and drop response fleet.
It takes 1 (one) server tick to warp to citadel tether. It takes more than 1 (one) server tick to start warp, land, take wormhole, scan, start warp, land, lock and point [citation needed].
All of which are meaningless if you’re watching local while being pre-aligned. And if you’re using an industrial core or bastion in null without a protection fleet on standby, well…you deserve what you get
Cloaking is a ‘hard mechanical advantage’? A cloaked ship can’t earn ISK or kill anyone. A PvE-er in null can earn a lot of isk. Advantage them.
For a cloaked ship to do any harm, they have to be active. No inactive, AFK cloaked ship ever hurt anyone.
Fact is: PvE ships in SOV do die all the time. Mainly because they are watching netflix, not on comms and not in standing defense fleets when PvE-ing. Mike, what percent of your time in null are you actively in a defense fleet and on comms? Give me a definitive number for an answer.
So lets get this straight…
It’s Ok for a camper to be watching Netflix, not on comms and not in a standing defense fleet with complete impunity regardless of the response he gets, but it’s not ok for the PvE player to look away from the local box for 30 seconds?
Feel free to explain that logic to me.
It’s very ok if a ratter wants to look away for 30 seconds. Its just a dumb ■■■■ thing to do. But being a dumb ■■■■ shouldn’t be the only reason ratters die in null.
And yet there is no similar obligation on the part of the camper. Why is that OK? Why should that not be punished in the exact same way?
Right… because that’s an approved playstyle, while the PvE guys should all just quit for a game more suited to them. Sandbox only means sandbox if you want to play a certain way.
If they can’t handle someone that can’t even hurt them, then sure, EVE might not be the game for them.
That description fits you perfectly.
You know, you could always go to the region of space that was designed for cowards like you. Highsec.
Nullsec is, by its very definition, NOT supposed to be safe. It’s a PvP zone. High risk, high reward.
They have highsec.
These PvE players have no business being in a pvp zone. If they can’t take the heat, they shouldn’t whine about it being too hot.
Bait him
Play another game.
One is gathering resources, the other is just sitting around, doing nothing at all.
No, they should simply move to the region of space designed with them in mind. Highsec.
But of course even highsec isn’t safe enough for people like you, Mike. In that case the best advice you could get is to finally accept that EVE just isn’t the right game for you.
if i wasn’t sure you’re a guy, then i’d date you, spend a great evening with you and then i’d steal your wallet. 
The cloaky camper can’t make isk while they’re afk and/or cloaked, the mechanics of the cloak prevent it.
Afk haulers, miners and ratters on the other hand can, because there’s no such mechanical restriction in place to prevent it.
Because of local.
Ratters get infallible intel and can get safe at the drop of a hat. So cloakers get to go afk in space.
Don’t like it? Goto hisec.
Every other AFK activity suffers higher risk of loss one way or another from being AFK, except using a cloak to camp.
But you go ahead and tell yourselves that the cowards are the ones actually risking assets in space rather than hiding under cloaks.
But you go ahead and tell yourselves that the cowards are the ones actually risking assets in space rather than hiding under cloaks.
Passive aggressive. For you it’s personal, and therefore there is no reason to further try talking about this.
Conclusion: you’re just here to rant, because for any rational person it’s obvious that you’re just wasting your, and a lot of other peoples, time.
When will you learn?
Other afk activities make gains…
And what high risk is there for mining in hi-sec? Or doing pi? Or trading?
Do you mean it’s hi risk to afk rat in null or wh? Well no ■■■■! It’s meant to be hi-risk to rat AT your keyboard!
For someone who whines about logic you’re in short supply of it.
He won’t ever.
100’s of pages of Mike whining.
The higher risk of going AFK in highsec is the same as that in Null— that someone will gank you. If you are AFK you won’t see or attempt to evade or defend against the gank, and thus it will succeed, uncontested.
It’s not personal. It’s just that there is so much one sided dishonest stupidity on the part of those trying to defend cloaked camping. It’s not really the activity that bothers me so much as the blighted idiocy produced by those trying to use ‘logic’ to defend it.
It’s not logically defensible. Literally the only valid ‘argument’ ever brought forth for it was ‘Fozzy said it was OK’ and therefore by dev fiat it was declared balanced. It sure as hell was never logically supported, and all attempts to try have resulted in the most self-serving drivel the forums have ever produced.