Main War declaration thread

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

@Ralph_King-Griffin summed it up nicely

Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

@OId_SouI1

• Only allow 1-3 highsec wars to be declared at a time. (You would actually have to think about who you want to dec.)
• Members may not withdraw from a corporation that is involved in a war.
• Cost to maintain a given war grows exponentially on a weekly basis.

1. easy to circumvent, form sub-corp, wardec, invite main corp as ally.

2. This is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

3. easy to circumvent, right along with problem #1.

[Salt_Foambreaker]

@Sugar_Smacks

Stop trying to downplay the implications or the stupidity shown here. It was no secret that the most obvious workaround for new players was to not log on

You mean besides joining a real corp or and NPC corp?

[Sugar_Smacks]

Circumventing wars by having an ally war dec you is a violation of the terms of service.

[Sugar_Smacks]

Real corp? Letting your bias show through that if they don’t play EvE your way then they aren’t going to be allowed to play it harassment free at all right?

Yea show the devs what your really like.

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

@Sugar_Smacks

Circumventing wars by having an ally war dec you is a violation of the terms of service.

Thanks for the information. Ignorance is not bliss.

[Salt_Foambreaker]

@Sugar_Smacks

Real corp? Letting your bias show through that if they don’t play EvE your way then they aren’t going to be allowed to play it harassment free at all right?

Yea show the devs what your really like.

I am not the topic here.

Don’t get emotional.

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

@Bibosikus

this is basically a acknowledgment that CCP have failed to act on harmfull yet contentious issues for years. next up cloaky camping and suicide ganking. the difference is the big alliances dont like being war deced but they do like suicide ganking and cloaky camping each other. So watch as war decs get fixed but the other issues dont.

Agree that the wardec system is broken and cloaky camping should have a real functional counter but suicide ganking is game essential to keep highsec from becoming too safe and hence grinding the industry machine to a stand still.

[Sugar_Smacks]

Cloaky camping does have a counter its called a cyno inhibitor. Hey look theres a new one of those now.

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

@Salt_Foambreaker

Because a PvP group really needs a refinery or a market.

Try to at least make suggestions that make sense in the game.

There is no requirement that you need any wardec to pvp against anyone, anyplace, at anytime.

[Sugar_Smacks]

He is responding to the proposed change to make owning a structure a requirement to start or participate in wars.

Not my proposal but has been brought up by many people

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

@Daichi_Yamato

For the duration of the war, BUT THAT THE DROP IN ACTIVITY NEVER RECOVERS AFTERWARDS!

Yeah they didn’t say that either.

@Teckos_Pech

For the duration of the war, BUT THAT THE DROP IN ACTIVITY NEVER RECOVERS AFTERWARDS!

Okay, I’ve read through it a few times and just don’t see this…please support this statement.

He may have exaggerated the wording but the foundation of his statement is support by CCPs comments.

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

@Teckos_Pech

Even if we look at some of the suggestions such as “victory conditions”, structures, “capture the flag”, etc. These will all still be subject to N+1.

Structure requirement is not an n+1 situation since any corp without a structure is wardec immune. If this change is put into place you can bring all of EVE with you and attempt to wardec my one-man corp and fail since I dont own a structure you will not be able to wardec me, i’d be immune.

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

@Ash_Beldrulf

War Decs need to die till something is fixed in the mechanic. I have seen multiple corps driven from the game by war decs and strong arm robbery with the war dec mechanic. Just today, one of the small corps I do business with decided they are done playing. They had about 15 members at the start, after 3 weeks of war they are down to two active members, both of them are pulling down the station and quiting. Yes they did defend their station and they tried to fight back but a 500 character alliance war dec a 15 man corp is pure BS. the ALLIANCE DEMANDED 500M isk worth of ore/ice per month to stop war dec them or they would war dec them forever. Sounds like a great mechanic to me!

There is nothing wrong with this scenario, if you want to go into structures you need to defend them…period!

[Teckos_Pech]

@Sugar_Smacks

Circumventing wars by having an ally war dec you is a violation of the terms of service.

What? Where is that in the ToS? I just looked and there is nothing about war or wars.

From the list of known exploits there is this:

Constant War Declarations * War Declarations are a risk that every player corporation has to face and they are under no circumstances considered harassment. Wars in general can be completely avoided by remaining in an NPC corporation.

@JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE

Structure requirement is not an n+1 situation since any corp without a structure is wardec immune.

I did not write that structures are N+1 but they are subject to N+1. You bring 5 guys to bash the structure I bring 5+M. You see me coming with 5+M so you get on the batphone and look for M+K. If you can’t you bugger off. And we are back to where we are now, one side feeling overwhelmed and facing an unfair advantage. Especially when it is a 500 pilot war dec alliance and a 15 man manufacturing corporation.

@JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE

If this change is put into place you can bring all of EVE with you and attempt to wardec my one-man corp and fail since I dont own a structure you will not be able to wardec me, i’d be immune.

Two responses…one we already have this. Just stay in an NPC corp and you are totally immune.

Two, this creates a significant disincentive for players to opt out of some of the better structures for things like industry and manufacturing. And since this is the same with NPC stations, why do it at all? Why not just have the email to the defenders include this information? Just put in something about, “If you do not want to participate in this war dec drop corp and wait it out in an NPC corp.” This way players can keep mining, running missions, doing PI, etc. Granted they might lose a structure if they have one up, but leaving some alts with reasonable skills in the corp to man the structure could make it harder to kill.

[Sepheir_Sepheron]

Yeah get rid of all the carebears then have fun going around doing pointless scrims over nothing. Eve needs all types of players to function lest everyone be waiting around in a covert ops. How you gonna pirate when there’s only other pirates?

[Sugar_Smacks]

I actually read through all of CCPs documents that are available and it doesn’t say anything against war deccing your friends, but it also doesn’t say anything about a cap on the amount of wars you can receive. More to the point if the amount of wars you can receive is unlimited then there is no point is punishing people for having their friends attack them.

[Sugar_Smacks]

You know I learned a long time ago when you stop feeding the piranha in the piranha tank, then at some point they start eating each other.

[JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE]

@Solecist_Project

Always worth mentioning that people got exactly what the asked for. They shall never get to forget this. They wanted to be able to fit stuff on their freighters, which automatically had to come in combination with a nerf of the base stats. It’s a classic! Bears ask for something and then it comes haunting them, because the “solution” actually did not address the actual problem: Their incompetence in general.

noms food

Instead of putting words into the mouths of some fictitious, ‘people that asked for freighter changes, hated the outcome’, argument that is as hollow as it is an argumentative fallacy, simply state that YOU didnt like the changes. At least this reduces your statement to the level of opinion to which everyone is entitled and thus removes the fallacy.

Lastly, it takes only one data point to disprove the contention that, ‘people that wanted freighter changes hated the outcome’, and i proffer myself as that data point and thus your fallacious statement is easily proven false.

[Sepheir_Sepheron]

Yeah and imagine how boring that would be. Every target is pvp aware and only engages winning fights. Everyone flies cheap kitey or cloaky garbage and nothing of value is ever lost.