Market Trading - Toward A True Brokerage

TL;DR - We as traders are few in number and if we work with large producers (who can be identified) we can create a true brokerage…moving product for producers at more reasonable prices that trade faster.

I feel like the Market is a mix between dumb producers grossly undercutting their own value, and a bunch of hyenas who would rather bite off their own ankles than make a decent profit.

This thread is to feel-out the idea of a Cooperative/Collective of actual Traders.

I trade all the time, about 99% of my activity in EVE for the last year has been trading.

I’d say I complete about 40 orders a day, landing me anywhere between ~100-400million isk profit a day, so I have a pretty good understanding of the market (I THINK).

For instance, the isotope market is greatly undervalued right now and I MAY have fixed the Nitrogen Isotope market, at great “expense” to myself. It still is profitable to do so but boy did it take some capital.

But the Oxygen, Helium and Hydrogen markets are still broken, I can see this based on the volume of buys versus the volume of sales, what’s happening is producers are not THINKING, they see one low price and dump more product onto the market at that low price. The isotope market is rather elastic and stretches a great deal. Another way of thinking about the isotope market is it is very “viscous”, like molasses. Not much of a financial term but it’s pretty obvious what I’m getting at.

If some idiot wants to sell his isotopes for -20% the market value, it will take a WHILE for the isotope market to recover.

But, if you liquidate his position and reposition it at +10% of the market value, that change will ALSO have permanency.

Enough about the nuts-and-bolts, the idea here is we can cooperate as TRADERS to actually do what traders actually are supposed to do. Make markets optimal.

Right now, thanks to CCP, Eve Markets are like a bunch of ripped assholes shitting on everyone. Mineral and Ice changes have really created un-realistic volatility in those products, and the Pi changes are about to do the same to the Pi market.

If a well organized team of friendly-competitive traders gets together, we can probably restore the “rational” margins of 2-5% to the market, and also fix the stupidity of these producers who are basically selling at a loss right now.

I am not sure how well we can cooperate when in a way, trading is like a game of Chess, and the veil of secrecy is where the money is made, but I think the first place we can start is the following:

  1. Determine the big competitive markets (minerals, isotopes, inputs for production, etc.)
  2. Identify what margin we want…probably 5% but 2% is do-able (but very difficult to compete at 2%)
  3. Identify what the buy price can support, we may need to gather some units and sell-out some high-priced buy orders to bring that down…but controlling the sell price is easier.
  4. Once we know what buy is achievable (and that’s pretty obvious based on lifespan of order and how many units are near the top versus how many units are traded volume daily).
  5. Then we can determine a sell price to meet the margin, and knowing how much ISK value is below that sell price we can determine if that market is “fixable”.

For instance if we determine we need to buy out 10 Billion isk worth of idiots from a specific market, we COULD say we each will buy 1Billion worth and initiate trade at xxxx.xx price…that starts us with say 3% margin, and then its competitive after that…

Something like that can be achievable if we cooperate and I’m pretty sure just a few of us can determine markets in EVE.

Most of the Market seems to be intelligently traded by less than 20 persons I’d say…I have my fingers in most everything and I do not see a lot of intelligent trades. So either bots, or fire-and-forgetters who are not important.

Most of the trader-money in Jita is probably consolidated in less than 20 persons.

There is A LOT of money in producer-money…but producers tend to be “fire and forget” types and put 10s of billions of isk at prices that often aren’t being traded at all.

Or small percentages are traded when a market pushes toward where they put their prices. And they are happy with sitting with 10billion isk worth of crap on a market and waiting a year for all of it to sell.

I can get into a whole thing about “Producer-Trader” consortium, but that would be what we call a BROKERAGE.

To put some teeth to the argument I’m proposing, look at this guy:


His order of 991 units is retarded. My 6 units represents about 2.5mil isk profit. That is to say about 24units = about 10mil isk profit.

And that’s how I identify intelligence in trading, most traders tend to go for ABOUT 10mil…or ABOUT 2-5% margin.

The reason this 991unit guy is retarded is because he will NEVER move 991 units.


The market I showed is TOO small…anyone trading that market will undercut him instantly, and I (for instance) will make good isk doing so…

His 991 order will drift downward.

He represents the PRODUCER who fires-and-forgets his order and will maybe clear his production over the course of a year.

So he has a $7billion isk order that will clear…so slowly, that I will probably make that much over and over again in the time he finally clears that one order.

Now, as a “Brokerage” he could have traded to us at buy order, say 6,000,000 isk…and we would trade it for him, competitively, undercutting the small time traders. In smaller unit lots.

Internally, in the brokerage, someone will just buy or get as many units as they want to work with. To sell off the inventory.

I’ve played eve for many years. Have done almost everything except industry and market. I’m thinking about coming back from afk to try trading. Is there any good guides to get me started?

This sort of thing has been tried before and each that I have seen has failed sooner or later.

Cartels are difficult to maintain with out the use of force upon members and those who are not members of the cartel. This is true in the real world and true in Eve. Cartel members inevitably ‘cheat’ their fellow cartel members. Non-members use the cartel’s moves as an opportunity to undercut.

The byzantine fault solution actually proves fidelity in previously thought areas of unknowable accuracy.

Lack of profit in eve market fields is because this is a fantasy game. There are people who will gladly not account for their plex costs & produce/trade at a loss.

Near all game tools cater to this fallacy mogul, fuzz, j assets & ect., as do near all comentators such as Oz & ect.

Do not try red pill them they get emotional.

The fallacy is underpinned by CCP “buy account time, get space rich”.

It is a game filled with deluded people, dumb people, about 3% are red pilled.

Losses upon losses & all accounted for as business success by ignoring their monthly plex cost as they elect to pay for it with $ instead of ISK/plex.

Same situation with pvp and zkill where displayed losses are fractional but kills are not.

Ie, 600 players share kills but when you die your loss is not accounted for the 400 people who shot you. Meaning it’s night imposible to get a - board unless you turbo suck.

This game overtime has descended into a safe space designed to make losers feel like winners & thus lost its charm as a hardcore game over the years.

Eve is still the best market sandbox out there & that is saying something at how low brow gaming is nowadays even with all our tech advances.

1 Like

Great plan Alistair, I’ve sent 100 billion to support your effort.

This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.