Mass cloaky camper

(Keno Skir) #121

Quite honestly it was just a passing joke, about asking for a safe space from the safe space people. It made me chuckle so i wrote it :slight_smile:

(yellow parasol) #122

and here we are, as if you ha ent read anything in this thread, the main afk cloaky thread, or all other carebear threads.

when the people who start a discussion undermine said discussion with dishonesty, lies, fallacies and plain ■■■■■■■■, then there is no reason to give room for discussion. you ignoring that there are people with agendas and different ideologies does not change the fact that considering the mindsets of people is important. the same goes for trolls as well. anyone who lets himself get baited into back-and-forth posting by a troll did not consider the mindset of the person he talks to, and just keeps going on being delusional about the actual point of the “discussion”.

it is not about “disagreeing”. opinions don’t matter. what matters is logic, rationality and facts. one can disagree all he wants, that’s fair, but being resistant to learning and understanding means that there is no point going on, because the person has zero interest in actually talking about something in a ragional manner. all that person wants is to have their way, at all cost, no matter what.

for the same reason there will always be people who want gankers (as example) completely wiped and they, too, will not stop trying to achieve it. there is no lie they skip to try to achieve that. there is no statistic they will not claim is flawed. there is nothing that can be used to convince them, because they don’t give a rats ass about any of that. all they care about is having their way and people like you, who don’t see that, simply aren’t helping improving the situation. sorry.

typing on phone, sorry for the typos.

(Linus Gorp) #124

I honestly don’t care about safe spaces. I’m a grown up and won’t cry about virtual safe spaces being violated in a game that’s all about doing exactly that to other people.
It’s just that it would be easier collecting all their illiterate ■■■■■■■■ and the insane amount of tears if it went all into the same bucket (e.g. the same thread) instead of being spread all over the forums, polluting more intellectual discussions.

The same people arguing here are also arguing in that other thread, about the very same stuff, with the very same non-sense arguments. It’s really nothing but redundant keeping this one open and thus, under the rule of “Reopened and redundant threads will be locked” this one should be closed too.

(Caitlynn Askyra) #125

You can have your afk cloaking, I don’t care.

Why can’t I have a way to find you?

(Teckos Pech) #126

And a total reading comprehension fail. As I noted the opportunity cost point is not meant to justify AFK cloaking, it is merely to argue that AFK cloaking is not free. To “lock down” as systems as these poeple claim, for 24/7, carries a cost with it. Admitting this is true is called being intellectually honest. Failing to admit this and go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to hold on to a false belief is called being intellectually dishonest.

(Teckos Pech) #127

You already know I am there with perfect certainty. You also can test if I am AFK or not as well (move next system over, if I follow I am ATK, if I don’t I am AFK for all intents and pruposes). And yet here you are not only wanting perfect detection (local) you also want to be able to find my exact location. Jesus Christ you are a needy one.

(Caitlynn Askyra) #128

What the hell are you talking about. I said the cost was negligible, which it is. You even admit it yourself here:

This means for all intents and purposes it’s approximately free, hence totally fine to call it free, which is why I call it free. So stop the intellectual dishonestly of trying to discredit what I say over something as petty as me calling something close to zero, zero. There is no reason why I have to make that distinction as it is negligible and doesn’t affect what I say.

So if you are not here to justify AFK cloaking, then you can leave now. Otherwise tell me why I shouldn’t be allowed to find AFK cloakers.

(Caitlynn Askyra) #129

You know I’m there with perfect certainty, local doesn’t give me an advantage over you, It doesn’t tell me what you are here for.

So yes, I should have some way to hunt you, otherwise you have the advantage in being able to hunt without being hunted. That’s not fair.

(Wander Prian) #130

The whole point of cloaks is to have the ability to choose the moment of attack. You pay a heavy price for that ability. Every ship that can fit a covops cloak is inferior in fitting,ship bonuses, tank and damage when compared to a non-cloaky one

(Teckos Pech) #131

Back peddling duly noted. :roll_eyes:

Edit, I also said it maybe close to zero. In fact, the opportunity cost depends not just on what options are available but the player in question too. So if we have two players the opportunity cost for the first player might be quite low. For the other it might be quite high. This is another reason why these over-wrought threads are a hoot. People spouting off doomsday nonsense as if it were fact.

The problem is you are an ignoramus when it comes to opportunity cost. Instead of admitting it and asking for it to be explained you act like a complete fool.

(Teckos Pech) #132

Correct. The current situation is balanced. You know I am there and can respond accordingly (dock up, reship, etc.) and you have no way of finding me so that I can try to hunt you before you dock up/reship/etc.


(Caitlynn Askyra) #133

Yes but you can always drop a superior fleet so it doesn’t matter about the relative inferiority of your ship. Also with the cloak, you are never going to attack something you can’t kill, so again the strength of the ship is relatively infinite as long as you aren’t an idiot.

(Caitlynn Askyra) #134

If the cost for a pilot is too high they simply don’t do it, because why would they? You have to account for player psychology to make it applicable.

(Teckos Pech) #135

Yes, I know. That is why I noted it depends on the player. For example, the player may really dislike the alliance he intends to camp. So he is willing to incur the costs whereas another player who does have similar dislike my not.

But in the end, I do not care. The fact that there is opportunity cost means it is not free and will not become something everyone does everywhere.

(Teckos Pech) #136

So can you. So…balanced.

(Caitlynn Askyra) #137

Except I can’t if I’m a smaller alliance.

(Teckos Pech) #138

My God…

The game should not be balanced on your personal choices. It is up to you to deal with these issues. If I undock and there are 3 guys waiting for me for a fight, should I ask CCP to “even the odds”? No. But that is implicitly what you are asking for.

(Caitlynn Askyra) #139

Can you stop with the straw man about pretending I said the cost didn’t exist when I’ve said many times it’s negligible.

(Caitlynn Askyra) #140

No I’m not. I’m asking for a break for smaller alliances. We already earn peanuts compared to anyone in a large alliance, AFK cloaking just makes it even harder to do anything as a small alliance.

(Teckos Pech) #141

You literally said it was a trash argument that did not apply back upstream. Holy crap.