It pays to keep in mind that the Amarr definition of “liberal” is basically non-traditional, which in turn mostly just translates into “lol scriptures, we’re just doing this ■■■■ for money and power.” Moderate tends to translate into “Don’t want to waste money and risk ourselves in outright war when we can just quietly let the raids continue instead and look all innocent.”
… somewhat paraphrased, of course.
Thank you, I’ll try to keep that in mind next Amarr moderate or liberal I meet.
Of course. 
Nice to see that Max Singularity is making it abundantly clear he is a heretic. May your name be stricken for all time.
Worships the same god. Calls the other a heretic for not having the “right” thoughts about said god.
So why doesn’t the god in question settle the matter itself by appearing and ACTUALLY SAYING what its nature is? Particularly since it demands worship.
My favorite Space Pope! Yay!
The main issue here is that Max’s words contradict the official position of the Theology Council, Privy Council, and just about every important Imperial and local institution in the Empire during Jamyl I’s reign. He’s directly stating that the Imperial Throne was usurped by a pretender, casting doubt upon the entire institution and everything and everyone that supported it, and still supports it.
I am not going to dispute the logic in Max’s argument. The Empire itself disputes it, and its institutions know best in this matter. His disrespect of the memory of the hero that saved the Empire from the Elder Fleet and led it through most of the last decade is terribly disappointing at best, and heretical at worst.
But he is a capsuleer and can speak his mind unchecked. Honestly, if he were to call himself a true loyalist to the Empire, he would listen to his peers that tell him to cease this line of thought, but yet he does not.
The Empire and her institutions stand for a reason, and those reasons are greater than the flawed logic that Singularity brings to bear here. I will stop short of calling him a heretic until the Empire itself does, but I cannot help but feel insulted by his assertion that we had been serving a pretender since the miracle over Mekhios. It is not helpful to anyone, true or not.
Ah yes, because veracity is irrelevant, isn’t it?
It is very relevant. What I am pointing out is that even if this lie were true and public, it would help no one but those who would like to see the Empire destroyed. Like you.
Then if veracity is relevant, I wonder why letting the very people who benefit the most from hiding this potential truth be the ones to declare whether or not it is the truth seems to be perfectly acceptable? Surely you see why this is a rather untrustworthy claim when it isn’t verifiable by other sources.
Well, I do know this much: if Jamyl were declared a clone and a pretender before or during her reign, there would have been a civil war. A long, bloody civil war that you would have creamed yourself watching. That enough is worth living a lie over.
But it’s not a lie. Jamyl I saved the Empire from a murderous band of barbarians, rooted out a heinous heretic at the heart of the Empire, and rightfully took her place upon the throne and ruled well for seven years before her untimely death at the hands of alien abominations. She was a hero, a shrewd and just ruler, and I’ll not question her legitimacy as it is no longer even relevant to the future. That is the truth, and there is little else to discuss.
Now that is a far more honest way of looking at it. Even though you’re calling the woman who condones the murder of children, for the heinous crime of no longer being slaves a hero and just ruler.
I do note you didn’t actually respond to the matter of the whole “letting the goat guard the haysack” situation when it comes to who gets to decide what is and isn’t true in this case.
She murdered thousands as an Heir, but freed millions as Empress. People change. I cannot judge her.
Kinda the textbook definition of ‘heretic’, yes. If they worshiped different gods, they’d be ‘heathens’.
Oh I don’t know. No change of heart - which that weaponized PR stunt certainly was not - removes responsibility for actions taken before then. “Oh I changed my mind” is not a defense against murder already committed. I note you still have nothing to say on the subject of your Keepers of Truth having… shall we say motive and means to make the ‘truth’ out to be what they want it to be?
And so it’s much more important to stick our fingers in our ears and shout ‘lalalalalalalalalacan’t HEEEEEAAAAAR YOOOOUUUU’ than to try to figure out if he’s right, and if so, how to prevent it from happening in the future, becauuuuuse…
… God knows (LITERALLY!) a bunch of top-echelon functionaries who are accused of being complicit in the usurpation of the Throne are totally the most trustworthy judges of whether or not they did it. Nobody would ever just… I dunno… lie and say ‘no, no, of course, I’m innocent!’
Cuz you wouldn’t want to start demanding actual truth in your “Divine Truth”, now would you?
Yes, it’s a ridiculous and pointless exercise. If their god were real they wouldn’t have to play these games.
Now that’s just crazy talk. If their god were real, it’d be omnipotent. Being omnipotent, their god’s well within its abilities to be a sadistic bastard who likes telling two different groups subtly different versions of the same message, so they can inflict centuries of utterly pointless and unnecessary violence and suffering upon one another in His name…
… presumably, while he makes a LOT of popcorn.
Right, how silly of me. Omnipotence fixes everything!
Checkmate atheists!
Mizzy, Arrendis, I get very tired of grappling with your lack of understanding of how the Empire works, but here we go again.
The members of the Privy Council, while acting in an advisory role to the Throne, also act adversarially to it. The Theology Council must condone decrees and acts either by direct edict or through silence. The Heirs balance the interests of their Houses, Holders and the continuation of the succession with the interests of the Throne and its will. Sometimes it is balanced against, rather than for. The Chancellor and Chamberlain act as checks on feasibility, as even though they are ostensibly the right and left hands of the Empress, they must also let the ruler know when their hands are tied. All work in concert to help or hinder the Throne as needs be.
The point is: they are the ones who get to question the appointed ruler of the Empire. Not me. Not Max, and definitely not you, or any other common idiot from the peanut gallery that thinks their opinion is worth two shits on this board, let alone in the real world.
Your petty insults are tiresome. Your constant blithering on matters you have no ability or will to change is tiresome. Your delusions on how things ought to work out are tiresome. I’d actually have more respect for both of you if you were in the middle of the Empire blowing things up; at least you’d be acting in good faith on your irreverently murderous rhetoric. But you’re not. You’re just talking heads. And dear God, do you talk. But as long as that is all that you do, I suppose I should not care as much as I do. I should really learn to let go of your stupidity.
As for this Tannia girl, she’s shaping up to be even worse. Now, she’s someone I can really get behind not taking seriously. She’s kind of an adorable backup singer to the screeching you two offer. A piping twitter of idiocy over the chorus of spiteful bile the duet offers. Good harmony.
And of course, none of these are in danger of losing control of their demesne if it turns out these things are in fact lies, right? These people most certainly wouldn’t collude or something if there’s truths out there like… say certain allegations against Jammies? The simple fact is, there is no real check on the powers that be here. They can keep each other on their toes, but they sure as hell aren’t going to topple their own pillars in the process.
Well, when there’s worthwhile targets trying to stick their toes out from underneath CONCORD’s protection, they certainly do tend to explode. Like certain Providence Keepstars for instance. What people do as capsuleers is by mechanics far beyond capsuleer control limited to capsuleer targets, which means prioritizing accordingly. Unless of course you think suiciding crap in Amarr has some sort of intrinsic value. What happens outside of capsuleer warfare is of course a matter less suitable for public discourse.
Of course… if you wish to try and shut any of us up, I do welcome you to try. I know it’s inconvenient to have to deal with these boards being public venues, but do cheer up. Your consternation is a source of endless amusement, so take heart in spreading such joy.
I truly do wish New Eden could have been a place where this conflict didn’t have to be, but here we are. I’m afraid there’ll have to be prices to paid if you wish to see inconvenient voices silenced.