Tis better to die and remain true to the Word than to live in sin having turned your back on God. She was Divine, that is the end of it.
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There’s no such thing as your divinity. People do not miraculously return from the dead. The simple explanation is that she was cloned. That is the end of it.
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I feel as though I am looking up at the distant and starry night sky from the bottom of a very deep, and very dismal rabbit hole. Where did this conversation even start?
Right, someone called Max a heretic.
I’d say the issue of Jamyl’s alleged rebirth is divisive, but I’ve spent more than enough time with Captain Obvious today. Perhaps, it’s best to simply say that Jamyl Sarum has become Schrodinger’s Empress.
Is she dead? Isn’t she dead?
Until we find and open the cloning bay, no one will know.
In fact, speaking of t-shirts. Maybe I’ll have one silkscreened with a picture of a pod emblazoned with Jamyl’s crest and the words “Schrodinger’s Empress”. Yes, that will do.
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Um. Sir? With the exception of a few people who are kind of hoping she’ll miraculously return from the dead again, the consensus in the Empire seems to be:
She was alive. She died. She returned from the dead via divine intervention to save the Empire from the Elder Fleet. She became Empress. The Drifters alpha-ed her Avatar-class titan and assassinated her. She is dead.
That’s … pretty much it.
As others have noted, while cloning and capsules are often paired, they’re not a necessary pairing. You can be a capsuleer without being a clone, just, pretty much nobody does that anymore. Obvious exception: high-level Amarrian nobility with a chance at the throne not wanting to run afoul of the Doctrine of Sacred Flesh.
There are some calling for Jamyl to be elevated to sainthood. There are, respectfully, very few Amarr who expect her to return to this world again, aside from a very few who are maybe looking for excuses to deny the appropriateness of Empress Catiz’s ascent to the throne.
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Oh definitely. I mean, if we’re completely ignoring that agents specializing in locating capsuleers traced her to a certain station after the Drifter “assassination”.
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Eh … I think those agents trace the registered pod more than the capsuleer. I can catch the InterBus to the Holy Grape or whatever pretty easily and they’ll still tell you I’m in Mehatoor or wherever. It’s still a little weird, but, it’s at least as likely to be some bit of bureaucratic something-or-other than evidence that she was there having a post-cloning shower and a cup of tea.
If it’s even true.
Note that the whole system’s set up mostly for people who do routinely clone. It’s not too surprising if it produces ghosts, so to speak, in cases where someone doesn’t.
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Well I saw the reports so I suspect they’re true. It’s also hardly all that difficult to believe she did clone after her pod popped. It’s what happens to all other capsuleers. Of course, what happened after that, since evidence of the shrew they decided to make giant murals installations of on capital ships being an actual cloned capsuleer would be a bit embarrassing to say the least is more difficult to say.
Of course, I understand why they need to pretend so hard it’s a miracle, but none of the people here are stupid enough to believe that when there’s so many mundane and highly likely reasons for her Resurrection and the report’s existence.
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In which case, “so very gone she might as well be actually dead,” can stand in for, “dead,” Miz.
Maybe you’d like to try to find her? I’m sure it’d be a good use of your war chest and not at all a terrible waste of resources…
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Oh the Network is keeping an eye out, but of course it’s probably entirely futile. She’s indeed probably as gone as can be at this point. It’s less about finding her and more about pointing out that pretending she wasn’t a clone is kind of daft at this point. This much smoke doesn’t come along without a fire.
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Miz, the Amarr literally believe themselves to be acting under the orders of a deity who’s directed them to reconstruct his kingdom in this world. It might be a little obvious to you by now that what makes sense to spiritual skeptics and what makes sense to a community of believers is a little different.
(If her arrival was not, in fact, a miracle-- and, as noted, I’m not Amarr, myself, so-- I’ve got a pile of questions, starting with, “Where did that superweapon come from?”)
(I’m not actually expecting to get a single answer.)
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Oh I’m sure some do actually believe that, but I highly doubt most of them do. Not the capsuleers, in particular. That kind of world-view rarely survives exposure to the wider perspectives of the rest of existence, and few are so exposed as capsuleers. It’s one of the main reasons for the insularity you’ll find is so prevalent and enforced. Try to keep such exposure to a minimum. Futile, really.
Like I’ve said before, few of them are stupid. They’ve connected the dots a long time ago.
Where the super weapon came from, well… it’s an interesting question but since I’ve watched its equivalent fired a few times already I suspect it’s a bit less super these days than it was back then. Hell, we’ve already figured out how to cheese the damn thing through mass manipulation. Some Higgs Anchors and you’ve basically set up its targets for it.
There’s simply nothing about Jammies that isn’t very easily explained with rather mundane means as far as New Eden goes.
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I hope you are not grouping the Order of Jamyl in with those Purist heretics, Ms Jenneth?
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Uh … my understanding was that the hope was for her to be elevated to sainthood ra-- you know I think I’m just going to shut up now.
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Can this be read as a stage play? I shall see that my monks and nuns read this work as entertainment for the mass.
/s/ Max Singularity
His Holiness, Maximilian Singularity VI (first of his name), Harbinger of Faith, Pope of New Eden, Column of Light, Prophet of the Storm, Bane of the False Empress, Founder of the Sixth Empire, Herald of the Imperium, Paragon of Virtue, The New Prophet, The Liberator of All Hope and Dreams
I have to say, Max, I love that you’ve managed to poke at Vaari and Synthe there, and whomp on DK’s latest ‘I shall post all my accolades’ meme-y-ness
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To all concerned on the side track…
It is not under dispute that any mortal can fly a capsule, and thank you all for the clarification to the masses that are not aware of this knowledge.
The Sixth Empire holds the rational thought, that a frozen body in space from more than a decade past, identified by billions of witnesses as one, Jamyl Sarum-- then heir of House Sarum, had died on the field during the Ascension Trials in the year of YC105.
She played her honorable and traditional role in the YC105 succession trials, which she and the other heirs lost to Doriam Kor-Azor. Our Amarrian traditional rules called for the suicide of every failed heir (as it had been since the Moral Reforms), including Jamyl Sarum. Millions, even billions of spectators saw her pod self-destruct. This is fact. This is not disputed.
That is the end of the legal Jamyl Sarum saga.
The mysterious purge and disappearance of senior members of the Theology Council immediately before Jamyl Sarum’s public reappearance in YC110 remains suspect to the timing of the event. The next incarnation of Jamyl Sarum, to reemerge from the dead was a blatant, brazen, criminal act upon the Great People of the Amarrian Empire.
The charges stand.
The most enlightened of faith, has the faith that God has given them the intellect to fly the cosmos in our Grand Titans and mighty fleets. This is our Gift from God to reason. It is also the same Gift that God gave us to think rationally, scientifically, with order, and reason to make our way through His heavens in His glory. To question, is part of that Gift from God, and the rational minded are not blinded by blind faith, but illuminated in the true faith of Gods Gift to see the world for what it is… beauty.
To blindly accept that a talking Fedo in an Apple tree as a matter of faith, is not seeking God’s truth, but a man-made fable. To blindly accept that a once proud Grand House of Amarr, House Sarum, put forth their daughter in YC105, to reemerge in YC110 as a holy being chosen by God, is not seeking God’s truth, but a man-made fable, again.
Man-made fables are blasphemous and sacrilegious to the Gift of God. He speaks to us with the observed data in front of our very eyes available to all races for analysis and confirmation. He speaks in this way to us all, no filter, to every person from any place, for those that have learned to be rational, His Gift is understandable and beautiful.
Jamyl Sarum is deceased and failed to endure the Inquisition of YC117. There shall never be absolution of her criminal charges, they remain standing. To that end, it is the end of the illegal saga of Jamyl Sarum.
Today, we stand under a rightfully chosen, traditionally chosen, sanctified chosen, Empress of the Amarr Empire. My Empress. Today we move forward in God’s Gift, rationally, and reason.
Blessings Be.
/s/ Max Singularity
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Speaking of trying too hard…
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At least Max is a moderate and liberal in his religious views, choosing reason and evidence over dogma. Even if he can’t entirely let go of his religious beliefs, Max appears to be someone who can be reasoned with. Max arguably has influence over many in Amarr, probably for those reasons, and isn’t a fanatic like Vaari. Is it any wonder Vaari fears Max enough to resort to propaganda?
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A moderate and a liberal that nonetheless praises Empress Kittens, a woman with a history of slavery as a business, serious proponent of vitoxin and TCMC usage and chattel slavery. “Moderate and liberal” doesn’t help when this remains the case.
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I see your point and defer to your knowledge on Amarr politics.
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