Oh, don’t worry, they will. And it will end up right back at square one with them trying to enslave us and us trying to kill them.
If this bothers you so much, might I reccomend a vacation? You lack the willingness to walk this path with us and the charisma and strength to turn us from it.
I cannot speak to the path you wish him to walk, but there is a strength in seeking knowledge.
Well, he isn’t exactly wrong, the problem is he’s assuming he’s dealing with rational actors. They are not rational actors, we are not always either, due to past transgressions. We do all need to calm down and rethink many things. The problem is that won’t happen, even if one side does.
Maybe look at the reason for the failure, and not the consequences of it? Hmmm… no thanks. But feel free to peddle the bad-faith obfuscations someplace else, thanks.
Spirits, Arrendis.
Why do you waste your time with her? She clearly isn’t interested in productive debate.
If you are so hungry for war, then it is war you will have.
I will be making my intentions known within the coming weeks.
Sometimes I enjoy it, I suppose.
Given that said “loop hole” allowing criminal and PoW enslavement was written into the foundational CONCORD treaties, and was probably a compromise required to get Amarr to sign at all, I don’t think it’s a simple “Sarum found a loophole.”
Claiming a civilian population en masse as enemy combatants? I’m sure that’s in the fine print somewhere
Two words to you, Harkon Thorson:
Don’t start.
Asking all non-Amarrians to leave, and when they do not have the means, calling them illegal squatters, more likely. Though attacking them and calling them combatants if they defend themselves would work too. Gods know Flos has the weapons to.
And yes, I do realize there are legal loopholes there. Plenty of them. CONCORD must take a stance.
Systems of classification of combatants vs non-combatants in the Amarr/Matari war would fall in CEWPA rather than CONCORD initial agreement, if I understand correctly.
But considering the populations that support a war to be as much a part of the war as the soldiers fighting it is not exactly a radical position for a nation to take. The CEWPA agreement limits the scale of the war to a few regions, but in those regions we are most certainly at war.
The ban on foreign slaving seems clearly written with the understanding that Amarr reserves the right to enslave people with whom they are officially at war. That means that the current legal foreign targets for Amarr slavery would be the Matari CEWPA region, the Blood Raiders and other rogue nations, and the Drifters.
The fact that Amarr has up till now chosen to not engage in operations targeting populations has been one of the clearest signs of our continued restraint and patience in the name of the Pax Amarria policies. As we transition into an era of the Pax e Kilizhi Do, it is entirely unsurprising that we would be abandoning the policies that characterized the era of the Emperors Heideran VII, Doriam II, and Jamyl I. This change in Imperial Policy should not be understood as a criticism on the part of the Empress Catiz of the pious memory of any of her forebears, but rather it is a recognition that the time for the Pax Amarria has passed and we must look to the future.
-Chapter Master Gaven Lok’ri
Excubitoris Chapter of the Sacred Throne Order
Gaven, this seems a rather ludicrous description of the civilians in the warzone. When systems change hands, do the population’s personal loyalties change? Do they actively ‘support’ the efforts of the new occupiers? More importantly: can they realistically leave? For baseliners, it’s not a trivial thing to pull up stakes and move across town. It means uprooting families, changing work routines and commutes, finding new places to go and ways to get things… it’s a hassle, and it’s expensive.
Now make ‘across town’ ‘to a different star system’. The expense is orders of magnitude greater, all employment and social ties need to be rebuilt from scratch. And even if all of that gets overcome, there’s little to no guarantee of success or a safety net/economic support. Baseliners don’t just up and relocate on a whim. They can’t. Most of them would have a hard time relocating if their lives depended on it. And you’re going to call that ‘the populations that support a war’?
That is a pile of crap, and you know it. The populations supporting the CEWPA wars are the leaders of nations. They’re not the people whose homes have been turned into charnel houses for the convenience of their rulers. They’re not the billions trapped in those systems waiting for a chunk of hardened armor plate to survive atmospheric entry after a low-orbit fight and fall on their house.
If Sarum wants to enslave the people supporting the war, they should start with Kittens and work down through the other Heirs, before going and taking a colossal dump all over the civilians who’ve been living under threat of random obliteration for a decade.
Yes they do. Laws about slavery and Holders’ rights to take slaves are in Scripture.
I don’t particularly agree with them, but they do.
But it’s important to remember that any deal signed by an emperor of Amarr is also Imperial law. And we have signed CONCORD treaties. CONCORD law, interstellar law, is Imperial law. And we are obliged to obey that law. House Sarum is breaking with interstellar law, and so they are breaking Imperial law.
And I highly doubt everyone else’s claims to ‘but loopholes’ actually applies here. Certainly any loopholes that might be there are smaller than “well it’s okay if we just declare enemy non-combatants to be prisoners of war” or whatnot.
And all of this violates Amash-Akura’s laws of warfare and the right treatment of enemy civilians in war. Though we have millennia of history defying those laws.
I’d like to read these exact pieces if you could kindly point them out to me.
You can look at the books pertaining to the rights of Holders and other Imperial laws. Holder rights are covered extensively in Scripture, and slave-ownership is among their rights. The Book of Reclaiming also goes into conquest and enslavement.
Dearest duke.
May your humors boil inside your body.
Would you like to find my boot inside your arse?
I Love Lady Elkin dearly. I love her so much that it is impossible to love her any better. You insult him at your own peril.
I have immence honor to be
Vaari
jarl of Sosan VII, high father of the Imperial Pharmacy, symbol of unchallenged victory, Lord Fabricator of the Aegis Militia, the world’s most beloved hero, self proclaimed prophet, morninglord, golden mountain, carrier of the Heaven’s light, teacher of pure faith, speaker of unquestioned truth, lion of the universe, vanquisher of all heretics, bane of the witches, the great miner and skilled industrialist, Living Saint of Amarr and the Shield of Miners.
Your concern about the retaliation, of course, was quite logical and, indeed, it wasn’t wrong.
However, there is another question, wouldn’t they do it anyway? Aren’t they who use already valklears - former criminals, who murder, pillage and rape their victims?
And is it a proper retaliation? It seems like a banal terror. Terrorists never win. They do only what they are afraid of themselves if we do that to them. We shall not negotiate with them, we shall never be afraid of what they will do. We must keep doing our duty and exterminate them like pests who they are.
Never let them cloud your mind with threats. It’s them who will be responsible for the deaths, not you. It’s their crime that they are taking this retaliation, not yours.
Of course it’s our job as soldiers to save our citizens. But we have to admit, we simply can’t save everyone. It’s the harsh reality of the war. There alway be Gallente death squards that genocide colonists, valklears, minmatar “retaliators”.
Yes, we can’t save everyone. But what we can do - is to eliminate offenders, kill them, catch them, imprison them, enslave them and make them pay for their crimes. Hunt them down.
When have we done that within the warzone before? If you didn’t read Samira’s words before (don’t recall if it was this thread or another, I’ll find it later) this isn’t the first time the Empire has raised this idea as a possibility, and we haven’t razed any planets nor to my knowledge had serious discussion of it. There’s less of a reason to believe we would unprovoked, that should be telling that we have been provoked to a point it’s (hopefully) just a possibility.
I don’t know all the events that are happening in the warzone, but I do know pretty much how the war has started. An enormous Minmatar fleet has invaded the Empire even without war declaration, split into groups and went down to planets, including Mekhios, kidnapping and murdering people. Together with these events former Minmatar government was dismantled (or was straightforward partily murdered from what I heard without any trials) and a criminal (who was known for raiding Amarr space) took the position of the head of “Republic”. Some people call that fleet “Elder Fleet” to emphasize it wasn’t “Republic Fleet”, which probably has a meaning if you consider an “Old Republic”, but probably that’s not completely true if you consider New “Republic” that was “modified” by Shakor & Co. I don’t really know all details, but even without ties to “Old Republic” that fleet definitely was Minmatar, and who exactly led it probably is not that much important now, especially knowing who is the (inchangable for all these years it seems) head of the Republic now.