Soooo… do any of you remember Mosaic and the reasons behind some of the changes to the ore’s mineral composition in 0.0? Well, I do, and I bet you do too or at least some of you. Probably.
Back in 2014, things were a bit different. Rorquals weren’t what they are now, and mining huge quantities of ore in a timely manner required lots of clients. Just like today, some were bots, some were using input broadcasting, some others had a NASA level of hardware. I was 4 years in EvE back then, and mineral prices were about to see a very stable and deep slope by the end of the year, so much so that mining Plagioclase for mexallon is hisec was almost as profitable as mining gneiss in 0.0, mercoxit was superultra abundant and its price was around 4k a piece iirc (i might be wrong but it wasn’t healthy and stable as it is now) swimming down, mexallon was the most requested item (as we all know it’s a damn bottleneck), tritanium was hitting 6-7 isk a unit and everything else was… well, just look at the market right now, you might see some resemblance (but wait there’s more!)
Nocx was at 200 when it used to stay at 400, Mega fell from 1700-1500 to 800, Zyd was running between 700 and 500, isogen used to be at 70-60 and fell to 30-20, pyerite was hitting what? 2 isk per unit? what’s left? ah yeah, ice products, topes were hitting around 600 or 400 iirc…
Was there jump fatigue yet? I don’t remember.
Anyway, thanks to the “extremely balanced” Rorqual and a lotta more players in the game than I can recall (bots in 2011 are not eligible for this, sorry), thx, also, to the recent jump fatigue changes that allow for an easier and faster shipping of goods, we’re pretty much (and fast) approaching those values again… oh no wait, we’re already back at 2014 level of prices, my mistake (except for mercoxit and topes…). Sorry, guess I need more coffee in the morning. Yeah, yeah, there are no wars going on, EvE is stale again, blue doughnouts, #Delve#goons#grrgonhatgon yadyadayada, you can say whatever you want, thing is though: words don’t change the market. Numbers do.
Dear CCP, is this maybe the time to recognize, again, that you need to tweak Blueprints and/or Ore composition of rocks and anomalies?
This isn’t due to rorquals or anything in nullsec.
It’s due 100% to high-sec moon mining. High sec moons now spew Arkanor, Bistot and other null-sec ore… and they do a 15% variant for all rocks (rather than the “rare” 10% max variant found in regular belts/ore anomalies).
So… you’re now seeing tons of Orca based high-sec fleets that only have to worry about ganking and wardecs in high sec producing huge quantities of easy to mine ore. You probably see large alliances picking up huge swaths of 0.5 moons, athanors popping up all over the place. And the well organized alliances have several popping each day and vacuum them up in an hour or two (leaving nothing for “poaching” miners to take).
The reason Mercoxit and isatopes aren’t impacted… is they are not available in high sec.
Those charts are in m3, not in isk. They mined 14b in Delve in October of 2017 (before lifeblood). They mined 14b last month too. But the composition changed… it likely went from Ore anomaly mining to Moon mining… with higher grade regular ore and moon ores as well. Plus there is little loss on the “ore” side by the null-sec mining of moon ores as they all have “standard” mineral outputs as well as the moon goo outputs. If you mine sperrylite… when you reprocess you get Trit, Mex, Iso and Zyd as well as moon mats.
In most high sec regions, the amount of ore mined has gone up by 1.5 times. That’s not explained by having to mine moon goo instead of passive extraction (like it can be in low and null sec). This is where a big part of the addition comes from. 0.5 space is loaded with athanors on moons and those moon fields are getting wiped out quickly. These are really the same organized alliances… this isn’t something new players are exploiting. But if you are a null-sec alliance who borders high-sec… you can semi-afk mine a lot easier in high-sec without risking loss then you do going to an ore-anom. Your ATK mining will be your null-moons with actual moon-goo.
Overall, I think there might be some interesting consequences. The loss of passive moon goo combined with the fact that actively mining moon goo also produces standard minerals can’t help but inflate the supply of standard minerals. Capitals will get cheaper compared to T2 ships (because the moon goo supply is never going to be as high as when it was passive). Many T2 ships have noticeably gone up in price. That’s not happening with capitals… they’re decreasing slightly in price over the last year.
Lena, I’m sorry but I’m wondering if we play the same game.
CCP was very clear about that: no 0.0 ore in hisec moons.
And yes, HiSec also has ice belts. And they respawn like everywhere else, every 4 hours once depleted entirely.
You’re right though that moon mining, even in hisec, gives you a surplus in standard minerals, and as I said, with the changes to jump fatigue now it’s even easier to move those big loads of compressed rocks to hisec, refine everything and sell it, thus the reason prices are crashing faster than a week ago. We’re literally back at 2014/15 when CCP introduced some changes to restabilize the market of minerals. Will they do the same? Well I hope they will do something about it, because there are way more minerals around now than ever before.
CCP said no 0.0 MOON ores in highsec moons. But they are loaded with Arkanor, Bistot, Crockite, Spod, Gneiss… and the rest. The +15% moon variety too. I mine a ton of it when I’m watching TV. I was literally mining Arkanor last night in a 0.5 system. We cleaned out the belt in 45 minutes.
High Sec moon mining started with the February release. From January to March most high-sec systems are producing 1.2 to 1.5 times as much mined ore. Why do you think that is? I think it’s moon mining the “null sec quality” ores in high sec.
The problem isn’t the Rorqual, or any other ship. The problem is the entire economic structure of the game.
Stuff is created out of thin air, sort of like dollars are created out of thin air by the US Federal Reserve. This is called ‘inflation.’ But when it happens with ores in the game, it’s ore inflation rather than monetary inflation. But the mechanism is the same.
The problem is, all manner of stuff is created out of thin air. ISK is created out of thin air by bounties, mission rewards, etc. Modules are created out of thin air by rat drops. Ores and ices are created out of thin air at regular intervals (downtimes, etc). So, there’s no way all of this stuff is gonna balance each other out.
Rather than point to a ship and ask it to be nerfed, or rather than ask for a rebalance of mineral compositions, you should actually be asking for a redesign of the economy.
Another idea, which might be totally viable, is just to not worry about it. If mineral prices crash, they crash. Those who choose to still mine can. Those who choose to switch to something else more productive can. Thus, the players can naturally balance the economy. This is what a free market is supposed to do anyway.
Well, it’s a game based on an economy that revolvs around the constant manufacturing and destruction of many items, so it would make sense, given how many more players we have in the game, and given how much more quantity in terms of primary resources the players are able to provide now, to actually change the requirements to manufacture everything.
Because you get vastly more ore by being able to use rorquals, even if you just use one for boosting your mining fleet it’s still more.
Because there is vastly more available via the ore anoms rather than a once a fortnight moon mining event.
Because then you don’t have to waste time, effort and fuel shipping it into null to refine it at the vastly superior refining facilities.
Lena quite simply is talking a load of b.
It’s entirely due to Rorqual mining that prices are going down, this is a trend that started well before high sec moon mining and clearly can’t be attributed to highsec as a result by anyone who actually reads the data. It’s just the usual null tactic of throwing blame at highsec, and if you throw enough some of it sticks and highsec gets punished as a result.
The part that null-sec plays in inflation isn’t because of Rorquals… it’s because that you now have to MINE moon goo rather than just get it passively from moons… and that moon goo ore also produces standard minerals.
Groups that weren’t mining and instead were using passive moon farms are now mining goo and getting “extra” trit, mex, iso, pyerite and the rest.
The part that high sec is playing is that they can now get the “good” (and that definition is changing) ores from high-sec moons. Better ore in more safety than can be mined from null-sec ore anoms. Mining (in both highsec, lowsec and null sec) is moving almost entirely to moon belts. Ore anoms or standard asteroid belts are only where you go when the moon belts are empty… and as athanor moon drilling spam is increasing that’s becoming less and less of an issue.
It really isn’t the rorqual by itself. It’s that fact that more active mining HAS to happen to get moon goo, that moon goo produces standard minerals as a byproduct and you can get all stardard ore in high sec. The rorqual is why lower population areas in null can outproduce highsec in the quantity of ore mined. But that’s been the case for years now. The moon changes… for all areas of space… are what’s changed the mining economy in the last few months to where it stands now.
Honestly, it just takes any goon deployment to see mineral prices rise, so rorquals do play a big role in this, and of course 0.0 ores available in hsec moons might also contribute to it but… I can’t really picture how much.
Are you talking about the Rorq implementation after citadels? If so, then sure. If your’e talking about the latest rorq changes in March of 2017, they actually caused an uptick in mineral prices that started going back down again once moon mining was added.