Nerf High Sec Moon Mining


(Ramsey Hawthorne) #1

Morning ladies and gentlemen and threk,

As an avid moon miner running a decent number of Athanors on a few moons, I have noticed a slight dive in the price of minerals as supply of once “high risk, high reward” ore and minerals have become abundant in the market. As a trader of produced goods and raw materials, I find that unsettling.

I would like to propose a self declared solution that would turn mining operations for higher yields of abc ore into a once again “higher risk, higher reward” gameplay.

Reaction services are not available for 0.5 or higher space for good reason, a health concern. Why not consider the effects of a moon drill on a heavily populated Athanor in high security space. Thus CONCORD steps in and regulates moon drilling equipment to a less potent and less dangerous drill, thus rendering the current drill banned in high security space.

This new drill, due to having been less potent and such, would allow extraction of the regional variant of ore (i.e. veldspar, scordite, kernite, plag etc.) to be in every extraction in their high yield variant, but have the scanned ore (i.e. flawless ark, brilliant gniess etc.) have a ‘probability’ of spawning during their extraction along side their standard variant (i.e ark, gniess etc), by that I mean the yield will vary by extraction, to further provide an example. 0.5 is the yield of arkonor found on the moon, but without special rigs and RNG Jesus on your side, you may only get anywhere between 0.0-0.5 of the extraction, with more roids favoring arkonor over flawless arkonor.

a Jackpot extraction would be a miners dream, as you would obtain the full yield of the arkonor, with all roids being ‘flawless’. Moon ore extraction would remain untouched, as that was the point in the first place to allow moon mining in high sec to balance the market.

This would require industrial corporations to either join null and have even more fun, become slaves to a low sec alliance, or schedule mining operations around a high sec moon that will yield r8 moon ore and the possibility of abc ore with more standard variants than high yield variants.

Call the drill the “Demeter Drill”! lol


(Max Deveron) #2

nope, I am a highsec industrialist.

And the fact Goons could flood the market and literally destroy highsec markets for a long time to come makes your fears a moot point.

To counter, i think all highsec moons should be opened up to exploitation.


(Dyver Phycad) #3

High sec does not drive prices down. Delve does, and by extension all of null sec.

And why would you want to join null sec entities? They are boring, annoying, tedious and anything but rewarding.


(Sasha Viderzei) #4

I participated a bit (a little bit) in a corporation member of the Goonswarm. The guys in there were cool and I enjoyed it, but I highly prefer wormhole now, because of the randomness of the exit you can stay without a good Hisec path for days, and this everything you like stay in your pocket, so you can sell them to your corpmates and won’t bother that much the Hisec market.


(Scipio Artelius) #5

Delve is a net importer. As a net outcome, Goons are consuming everything they produce and purchasing resources/products from outside the region in order to feed their demand.

In addition to that, they pretty much sit constantly in the zkillboard list of most active PvP Alliances. They are destroying stuff all over, helping to drive further demand, both for themselves and others.

How are they driving down prices exactly?


(Xebov) #6

Just to get this right. Because of this you want to partly remove some ores and add other ones instead, so you would still flood the market, just with different items.

This is the reason why High Sec yields these ores. To prevent market dominance by 0.0 corps and alliances. This is just one of several mechanics that are in place to allow for a constant supply.


(Dyver Phycad) #7

Net-importer does not mean they import minerals. Quite the contrary, they export all the excess stuff they do not need and only net-import materials they cannot produce themselves. Most minerals do not belong into that category. T2 materials, Mexallon, ice products like Heavy Watter mostly drive their net-importer values. I see dozens of freighters of theirs going from Khanid and Kor-Azor towards Jita with hundreds of millions of units of Pyerite, Tritanium and Strontium, Liquid Ozone and other things at least every 2 days.

And in case you doubt me: How do you Dissrupt Delve


(Scipio Artelius) #8

I’d be surprised if they import minerals at all. They don’t net export them either. They consume them in Delve. They export products of minerals, which is not an efficient way anymore to move minerals, so it isn’t like the old days where you could compress minerals through manufacture and then reprocess back to the same minerals again.

There are 97 total systems in Delve (including 12 that are NPC owned). There’s 267 systems that are 0.5 in the game.

That’s 3 times the number of systems that have moon mining in them in highsec, than there are systems in Delve that support moon mining.

So I can see what the OP is talking about, though I don’t personally think it is “nerf highsec” issue (and should never be). Here is a pretty typical history of nullsec minerals over the last 12 months:

Pretty much they all show a relatively small decrease over the last year, but a decline since February, though they were also declining in the late part of last year.

It’s easy to see the depression since February and think it’s a highsec thing.

However, if the OP wants things to change, whining to CCP isn’t the solution. He should organise a player response, not a CCP response.

But it’s also easy to be blinkered by bias against a single group, and just ignore data that is available. Makes it much easier to claim something without actually wondering if you are right or not.


(Dyver Phycad) #9

Then you are not paying attention as Delve is definitely exporting minerals and ice products to Jita on a massive scale. Besides, this statement contradicts itself. They have to either import minerals if they do not export because then they do not have enough Mexallon, for instance. However, if they do not import and thus have enough Mexallon, they need to export the massive excesses of Pyerite, Trit and Isogen. The same goes for Heavy Water because farming all the heavy water creates massive excesses of Stront and Liquid Ozon. And coincidentally, those are all the things that I see in freighters coming from Delve towards Jita.

I also do not see a significant change in the downward trend compared to the period from September 2017. Mineral prices have been deteriorating at a stead pace since then. The few high sec systems have little to do with this. As the combined mining value of all high sec is still orders of magnitudes smaller than Delve and other null sec exporters combined.


(Scipio Artelius) #10

Net exporter? Maybe you didn’t read. Actually, no you didn’t, because even in the part you quoted it clearly says net.

This I agree with. Not much to blame on highsec, though the decline since Feb is probably what the OP has seen.

But I’m sure it’s just all goon’s fault in the end. Must be. Delve is 97 systems out of near 2400 nullsec systems that support moon mining. Totally a goon issue.


(Dyver Phycad) #11

May I suggest you look at the graph I linked? :roll_eyes: 17T ISK mined (yes, the Querious part needs to be counted into that total because nearly all mining in Q takes place in the 2 CONDI and 1 INIT constellation). That is more than most other regions combined. It is a CFC problem. But one that CCP deliberately introduced in their absolutely stupid focus on capitals.


(Scipio Artelius) #12

This thread isn’t about the value of ores mined. It’s about the fall in mineral price on the market.

They aren’t the same thing.


(Dyver Phycad) #13

These things are not connected.


(Barbara Nichole) #14

calls to yet again nerf empire shows a real lack of imagination …


(Hipqo) #15

Have you seen the prices of anything t2? Prices didnt go down, they went sky high because of moon mining…


(Rocket Hellfire) #16

First of all, the ABC ores only become available after days, if not weeks, at a time… Whereas in null they are available 23/7.

Lower prices mean more ships available to more players. More ships means more willingness to pvp. More pvp means more fun. When will you people realize that lower cost items benefits EVERYONE.

If you want to take out the competition, then do your best.


(Solstice Projekt) #17

There is no problem that needs a solution.
You thinking one exists does not magically create one out of thin air.


(Medo Semah) #18

I personally don’t mine moons but I see your point. I do have one question.

If Null Sec Moon Mining is driving down High Sec prices why are you advocating for High Sec nerfs?

Am I interpreting this incorrectly?

Medo


(Lily Inkura) #19

That is open to quibble.

Not all of the 0.5 sec “moon mogul” type operations have failed. There are systems available where new moon fractures are scheduled on a daily basis. True, you still cannot guarantee an ABC will be available every day, but that is less important to the miner (economically) when you consider both gneiss and some moon goo are also higher isk / m3 mined anyway.


(zieg zion) #20

They need to look again at high sec moon mining. The mineral prices have just collapsed completely as a result of its introduction to high sec and wormholes